Imagine Arc Warden having his summon cooldown increased to 70 seconds if you actually kill it. Oh wait it was really a Brewmasters aghs, my bad. (Sarcasm off)

On the real note though, those heroes are not hard to dial back, just get the laser not enough damage to kill a ranged creep at lvl 4, it'll slow tinker enough to force a Kaya before blink or suffer with double casts.

Its just Valve seems to be reluctant to mess with heroes toolkit lately. I assume they want "big patch" out, and THEN dial down the winners, and up the losers.
Or maybe they are just busy making new immortal-bloody-golden-arcana-persona-skin for invoker.

If you play correct you can deal with both of them

cry kid

U forgot to mention that both of these heros are used by script and cheat users which takes the issue to a whole different level, also i think tinker is way worse than arc , because u can kill arc warden when u are on top of him but u just cant prevent tinker from blinking away unless u are playing with 200 stuns on your team

My solution to arc warden would be having his magnetic field not provide evasion to buildings which is the most annoying thing about the hero by far. Once you're ahead and everything's going great, he still has that shit to allow him and his team to easily stall the game until he has all the items he needs.

dont delete tinker!!!!!

Докрутились..

А арка не трогайтэ

As someone whos played as and against a lot of both of these heroes, they're no where near as bad as people make out. Matrix needs a nerf, and Arc needs to not have 2 free building fortifies.

Make Tinker's laser do 50% more damage to the hero and nerf the base damage so that the damage to heros is the same. Such a change would drastically reduce farm potential (ancient stack and ranged creep).

Tinker was at least manageable before rework - you either max nukes and try to snowball or afk farm 20 minutes and give space for enemies. Now it's braindead broken hero with nukes that deal more damage + AOE + shield + can't break his blink.

Arc is fair to play against (he can't blink out like Tinker at least when caught), but he has numbers busted - sparks do way more damage than they should, ult should have longer cooldown and/or give more gold on kill so you can't just spam it staying afk base.

Tinker rework tinker rework!

Seems like tinker is the most hated hero. But i like him. :)

not talking about bara? annoying ass hero

what do you have against ark? cool and balanced hero, weak against illusionists, summoners and in early game

I like the idea of making the cooldown on Tempest Double shorter if you acutely accomplish something with it (getting a kill, taking a tower, etc) or inversely making it longer if the double is killed too quickly by the enemy, so it's harder to just use it as a free pressuring tool.

Alternatively, what about making Arc suffer some penalty if the double dies violently? Not kill him off like a Meepo-clone, but maybe if the double dies far from Arc (so it won't happen in the middle of a teamfight), then Arc gets a temporary debuff to damage, HP, speed, etc.

Remove the arc warden building defense bullshit w/ magnetic field (as in, only applies to heroes), make laser only hit a max of 3 targets and I am happy

Neither of these two heroes are enjoyable in any sense to play against, just like Techies was. Techies is still in a decent spot, so there's no reason to believe they can't re-work these two heroes into a better spot as well.

I ban tinker every single game. Anytime I let tinker through, the game is worse for it.

tl;dr: item spam is OP

Arc Warden and Tinker are completely fine. The game needs to be balanced at the highest of levels being played and clearly high MMR players do not have a problem counting what these heroes do well.

Arc Warden and Tinker are situational picks at best in high level pubs and pro games.

you shouldnt make an article about deleting heros. you should make an article about this broken matchmaking! you can play any hero. you cant win against the matchmaking. gg rq

@Low APM
That's the problem with Tinker especially. He appears in 15%+ high level pub games and he wins 55%+ of them. The hero is by all definitions broken at the highest level of play.

Make Arc Warden ultimate cooldown 20-30s slower could be a nice fix !

>Arc Warden and Tinker are situational picks at best in high level pubs and pro games.
Hahaha, Tinker is first pick if it's not banned, how it's situational? Hero is absolutely broken and can't be countered, unless Tinker player does some stupid mistake. He also has 4 other heroes you have to deal with. Nah, Tinker is free MMR now and there is a reason why it goes to ban every game, and if it's not banned - you won/lost depending in which team it is.

if u have rad or cloak of flames tinker cant blink away.

" we fully support Valve balancing the game around the absolute highest level of play. It makes for a much better game design, even if it is a bit unfortunate for a large part of the playerbase."

This makes me think that dota is more and more a game meant to be streamed and watched rather than played. when you say Fuck most of the playerbase as long as the top 2500 players have balance, you have to realise that this is no longer a game for the masses

Where is Lycan? Where is Primal beast? Where is Meepo? Where is Brood? Where is Elder Titan? Where is Clinkz? Also its 2023 already why Arc's magnetic field still can save buildings even against mkb? This feature should be erased from dota after Miracle vs Alliance OMEGA LEAGUE invincible throne highlight 3 years before!

@Fried Cobra Stick [Loy]

You do know he has an ability that gives him a ~500hp shield that prevents Blink going on cooldown unless you actually break the shield and deal damage to Tinker? 50mmr players, smh

pretty sure the author of this post have skill issue xD