Tinker's strength : strong throughout the game, able to SOLO kill any retard in ultra late game
Tinker's weakness : extremely vulnerable to ganks if enemy team has at least a single disable throughout the game
Tinker is a hero that rewards high skill so need to nerf. I'm sure you know how much game sense and map awareness you need to win a game as tinker. Cuz tinker is good but really hard to finish game unless its like 30k net worth difference. And about killing right click carrys then necro+invoker (he's combo) needs nerf too
I love how you like to throw around the words HIGH SKILL CAP, yet I see every other tinker dominating his lane and even if he loses God forbid, he'll go to other lanes, find some retard and get fat then snowball outta control. Then you just lose hope for 30-50 mins because if the only solution to killing tinker in ultra late game is GANKING him then I'm sorry to say, the agi carry dies way faster than a tinker in any given scenario as they lack escapes such as euls blink and/or ghost (ethereal). While I agree that tinker/ voker need some time to learn, they are by NO means high skill heroes. There is NO hero in dota that requires skill, only a few days of practice yes but not skill. Especially not tinker/ voker as they effortlessly kill off any hero they face in lane and late game. If I hear high skill cap or GANK HIM again, I swear I'ma ignore every comment by the person who suggested it.
Yeah tinker is one of the strongest laners in the game, when he maxes nukes according to my 5.7k tinker player friend u cant really win against that tinker with any hero, thats why tinker should have really high gank priority. Tinker was complete garbage when spirit breaker and bounty hunter were super popular.
But tinker is the most vulnerable to ganks before he gets lvl 3 ulti. Just any disable will kill tinker, even when he has euls before he has lvl 3 ulti. Once tinker has enough mana pool to support lvl 3 ulti thats a HUGE power spike for him, before that he is a lot easier to gank. If u play against tinker u need wards, on lanes u can have those cliff wards on the edges of the map to find him in the trees or see where he blinks to or having a night stalker in team or nyx. If u dont have any catch in ur team against tinker then that means tinker was just a super good and game winning pick.
Troll had a 40 % winrate when his early game was nerfed. Terrorblade had a 46% winrate when he was nerfed because he was OP. As I said, this thread is not for you.
in 6.83 troll had 56% win rate if i remember correctly but i dont know about terrorblade
many heroes have lower win rate than they should but in most cases u see how strong a hero is by checking its win rate in >5k bracket and tinker has just below 51% which means he is viable but not OP or cancer tier
pro games have nothing to do with pub games
in pro games when a carry is first picked then in most cases its op and back then troll was op but he was also counter picked and sht
Yea I checked that and I admit it was my mistake, troll did have a high winrate but terrorblade did not and I don't think there has been any other carry that has been nerfed more than him despite the low winrate.
heroes are getting buffed and nerfed according to pro dota, when terrorblade got first nerfed to oblivion he was a bit op but in pubs people played it wrong
but he wasnt even in the pro scene at that time, you could say that about tinker too that in pubs people play him wrong thats why he has low winrate.
Also most people cry about buffing lifestealer since he is shit now when he has 56% winrate above 5k mmr.
i think lifestealer is actually fine right now as all heroes became tankier by getting more hp per str and he can fight pretty early.
if we are talking about fall 2014, when they allowed terrorblade in captain's mode, he wasn't very popular but those who played it were successful with it, EE was the most successful with it if i remember correctly
the higher pick rate a hero has the more likely it will be picked earlier and counterpicked
od had high pick rate, like first pick every game and still had over 50% win rate despite always also being counterpicked
It's useless arguing with you is it? Well then what kind of nerf would you suggest to tinker? Give us a view of what a balanced Tinker looks like in your eyes
how about we double the mana cost of his ult for starters. Let him farm ancients again so people wont cry about how shit he is, laser damage and blind reduced. Also reduce his damage a bit in the laning. That should be about it.
lol noobs are bad at dota because they dont know that much about the game but this guy seems to be the retarded.player who always talk ingame with a 0 10 record blaming team since they r not doimg their job and he knows everything about the game
or maybe icefrog sees this thread and will be amzed in how indepth ur dota knowledge is and hire u as part of their panel on who to buff and nerf in the game :) *everybody will transfer to league after that though.xD
tinker has 2500 mana late game with a bloodstone, dagon 5, tp boots 2, blink, ethereal blade, and sheepstick. He has 1200 mana remaining after killing a six slotted slark. Game is balanced. Button mashing 'skills' should be rewarded.
So let me get this right, a Tinker rekts slark, and you play slark, hence you are complaining? I've played with so many tinker and they lost cause my team and I counter picked the tinker.
OR are you complaining cause you don't have skills high enough to play the hero or any hero that has a complex mechanics and gameplay? (Is that why you play braindead heroes like slark, terrorblade and other right-click-only heroes?)
We're back to square one where I have to explain everything from the start. You know what? Fuck it. Let tinker be the same and when he starts getting picked more in the pro scene he'll get nerfed anyway so I don't know what purpose this thread is serving except for being a platform for every other dumbfuck on here to voice their opinions comprising of nothing but hate and autism. Closing this thread now unofficially. I get brain cell death every time I read the comments here.
how about we double the mana cost of his ult for starters. Let him farm ancients again so people wont cry about how shit he is, laser damage and blind reduced. Also reduce his damage a bit in the laning. That should be about it.- literally make him unplayable
How about we double the mana cost of his ult- they nerfed because it was to high.
Let him farm ancients again so people wont cry about how shit he is - nobody goes march first, he doesnt need to farm ancients he farms the lane he is pushing.
laser damage and blind reduced. - late game lazer is like a dagon lvl 1, with blind, by that time most carries got at least a mkb.
Also reduce his damage a bit in the laning. - make the early lanning weaker? if you fucking gank him he is dead, one lion stun bye m8
Tinker having too much mana late game is same like pudge having too much hp late game, at that point one mistake on either side could mean a lost lane of rax or even the game. Same as going late game vs medusa, and many other examples. Tinker is pretty trash now, or unimpressive to say the least...
WOW lmao i'm glad i left this shithouse
is this the new phantom riki cause wow i srsly can't comprehend how closed minded, hypocritical and egotistical you are
I'll pretend I'm reading this. Continue.
so ur saying we drop our argument cause we are wromg and we're playing the wrong tinker games?
Tinker's strength : strong throughout the game, able to SOLO kill any retard in ultra late game
Tinker's weakness : extremely vulnerable to ganks if enemy team has at least a single disable throughout the game
Tinker is a hero that rewards high skill so need to nerf. I'm sure you know how much game sense and map awareness you need to win a game as tinker. Cuz tinker is good but really hard to finish game unless its like 30k net worth difference. And about killing right click carrys then necro+invoker (he's combo) needs nerf too
That can be said about any hero which falls under the category of carry.
As for you @Cal, just leave this thread, it's not for you.
Rapier Gaming, have I not mentioned invoker in my comments? How did you miss that?
I love how you like to throw around the words HIGH SKILL CAP, yet I see every other tinker dominating his lane and even if he loses God forbid, he'll go to other lanes, find some retard and get fat then snowball outta control. Then you just lose hope for 30-50 mins because if the only solution to killing tinker in ultra late game is GANKING him then I'm sorry to say, the agi carry dies way faster than a tinker in any given scenario as they lack escapes such as euls blink and/or ghost (ethereal). While I agree that tinker/ voker need some time to learn, they are by NO means high skill heroes. There is NO hero in dota that requires skill, only a few days of practice yes but not skill. Especially not tinker/ voker as they effortlessly kill off any hero they face in lane and late game. If I hear high skill cap or GANK HIM again, I swear I'ma ignore every comment by the person who suggested it.
Yeah tinker is one of the strongest laners in the game, when he maxes nukes according to my 5.7k tinker player friend u cant really win against that tinker with any hero, thats why tinker should have really high gank priority. Tinker was complete garbage when spirit breaker and bounty hunter were super popular.
But tinker is the most vulnerable to ganks before he gets lvl 3 ulti. Just any disable will kill tinker, even when he has euls before he has lvl 3 ulti. Once tinker has enough mana pool to support lvl 3 ulti thats a HUGE power spike for him, before that he is a lot easier to gank. If u play against tinker u need wards, on lanes u can have those cliff wards on the edges of the map to find him in the trees or see where he blinks to or having a night stalker in team or nyx. If u dont have any catch in ur team against tinker then that means tinker was just a super good and game winning pick.
how can u explain his mediocre winrate
High skill cap or gank him
Troll had a 40 % winrate when his early game was nerfed. Terrorblade had a 46% winrate when he was nerfed because he was OP. As I said, this thread is not for you.
in 6.83 troll had 56% win rate if i remember correctly but i dont know about terrorblade
many heroes have lower win rate than they should but in most cases u see how strong a hero is by checking its win rate in >5k bracket and tinker has just below 51% which means he is viable but not OP or cancer tier
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/2zc73j/axe_and_troll_win_rate_in_pro_games/
pro games have nothing to do with pub games
in pro games when a carry is first picked then in most cases its op and back then troll was op but he was also counter picked and sht
Yea I checked that and I admit it was my mistake, troll did have a high winrate but terrorblade did not and I don't think there has been any other carry that has been nerfed more than him despite the low winrate.
Isolated idiot , its difficult for you to understand things . If you would just accept it your life will be better.
55% winrate on crystal maiden, nerf crystal maiden?
Isolated idiot, why don't you just agree with everyone? If you don't, I'm gonna cry to my mommy. Waaaaa
heroes are getting buffed and nerfed according to pro dota, when terrorblade got first nerfed to oblivion he was a bit op but in pubs people played it wrong
but he wasnt even in the pro scene at that time, you could say that about tinker too that in pubs people play him wrong thats why he has low winrate.
Also most people cry about buffing lifestealer since he is shit now when he has 56% winrate above 5k mmr.
i think lifestealer is actually fine right now as all heroes became tankier by getting more hp per str and he can fight pretty early.
if we are talking about fall 2014, when they allowed terrorblade in captain's mode, he wasn't very popular but those who played it were successful with it, EE was the most successful with it if i remember correctly
The same way tinker isnt very popular but those who play it are successful with it.
True but still not first/insta pick material
Then we must come to the conclusion that winrate is not the criteria for a hero being OP.
that depends on pick rate
the higher pick rate a hero has the more likely it will be picked earlier and counterpicked
od had high pick rate, like first pick every game and still had over 50% win rate despite always also being counterpicked
Ls in top 10 with 18% pick rate and 56% winrate. OP?
It's useless arguing with you is it? Well then what kind of nerf would you suggest to tinker? Give us a view of what a balanced Tinker looks like in your eyes
how about we double the mana cost of his ult for starters. Let him farm ancients again so people wont cry about how shit he is, laser damage and blind reduced. Also reduce his damage a bit in the laning. That should be about it.
LUL
lol noobs are bad at dota because they dont know that much about the game but this guy seems to be the retarded.player who always talk ingame with a 0 10 record blaming team since they r not doimg their job and he knows everything about the game
or maybe icefrog sees this thread and will be amzed in how indepth ur dota knowledge is and hire u as part of their panel on who to buff and nerf in the game :) *everybody will transfer to league after that though.xD
tinker has 2500 mana late game with a bloodstone, dagon 5, tp boots 2, blink, ethereal blade, and sheepstick. He has 1200 mana remaining after killing a six slotted slark. Game is balanced. Button mashing 'skills' should be rewarded.
So let me get this right, a Tinker rekts slark, and you play slark, hence you are complaining? I've played with so many tinker and they lost cause my team and I counter picked the tinker.
OR are you complaining cause you don't have skills high enough to play the hero or any hero that has a complex mechanics and gameplay? (Is that why you play braindead heroes like slark, terrorblade and other right-click-only heroes?)
tinker kills slark, slark kills tinker and thats how dota works.. not ur ordinary food chain where ur agi carry SHOULD outcarry any other carries
We're back to square one where I have to explain everything from the start. You know what? Fuck it. Let tinker be the same and when he starts getting picked more in the pro scene he'll get nerfed anyway so I don't know what purpose this thread is serving except for being a platform for every other dumbfuck on here to voice their opinions comprising of nothing but hate and autism. Closing this thread now unofficially. I get brain cell death every time I read the comments here.
how about we double the mana cost of his ult for starters. Let him farm ancients again so people wont cry about how shit he is, laser damage and blind reduced. Also reduce his damage a bit in the laning. That should be about it.- literally make him unplayable
How about we double the mana cost of his ult- they nerfed because it was to high.
Let him farm ancients again so people wont cry about how shit he is - nobody goes march first, he doesnt need to farm ancients he farms the lane he is pushing.
laser damage and blind reduced. - late game lazer is like a dagon lvl 1, with blind, by that time most carries got at least a mkb.
Also reduce his damage a bit in the laning. - make the early lanning weaker? if you fucking gank him he is dead, one lion stun bye m8
LMAO kys
ps: ur the OP just delete thisWon't delete it. This is the last reply though. Thx everyone for making this thread a hit. Love you too Mashiro. Here's a kiss. :*
Literally everyone right now.
Tinker having too much mana late game is same like pudge having too much hp late game, at that point one mistake on either side could mean a lost lane of rax or even the game. Same as going late game vs medusa, and many other examples. Tinker is pretty trash now, or unimpressive to say the least...
I think need neft Miracle- :))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG2o7U5Dt7M
WOW lmao i'm glad i left this shithouse
is this the new phantom riki cause wow i srsly can't comprehend how closed minded, hypocritical and egotistical you are
Won't delete it. This is the last reply though. Thx everyone for making this thread a hit. Love you too Mashiro. Here's a kiss. :*
what a big pus-sy
how is this thread still going
Because u just made it keep going and so did I.
dont kiss my waifu thx. And im obviously a retard new phantom riki thx also
Just looking at the op games, he only does good with terrorblade, and he has 6k games
@Mashiro thing is that we need a new Phantom Riki, we need our hero back