MM is good, every newb knows that.
http://dotabuff.com/topics/2014-01-01-and-matchmaking-keeps-sucking-even-worse
This matchmaking is like a lottery of leavers, pinoys, no brainers, feeders...
No offense to pinoys but the majority are spoilers who only talk pinoyish and ruin communication and teamfights before a clash even starts
That's why it is actually almost impossible to move onto the bracket higher, too many random things included.
Does anyone know how i can highlight these flaws of their imba mm to valve? Because majority of my games are like that, very one-sided in skill and surprisingly im always stuck in the losing team for IDK what reason
Well mm has been always like this - total trash shit designed to give newbs their free wins so they will buy more hats while good players are doomed to lose with these newbs.
I feel you, bro. After two days of victories with barely any losses, this is what I get:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/519267577 - Meepo who says he wants mid so he can practice, eventually fails miserably. Team goes 2:18 or something like it while I'm still in lane farming.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/519314770 - Even my early radiance couldn't make up for the Tusk who felt the urge to dive every single bait and then ping me that it's my fault for not following up (while I'm in the jungle)
http://dotabuff.com/matches/519449375 - Void farming all game long just to do completely irrational stuff in team fights including no chrono on 100hp Roshan and Aegis steal but instead directly initiating on 5 people in the pit.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/519487750 - PL last pick doesn't pick on time and just says "Oops.", plus a f****** 5 man stack against us while we only had 2 people in a stack.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/520436751 - Nyx DC on the 6th minute while DC-ing and reconnecting throughout that period of time just so he can make the game count.
Why, MM?
Sorry, really needed to vent this out.
Because in that game the Ursa/DP combo and their pushing power is what beat us; our team eventually played very well, it just didn't work out to win the game although we managed to win a few team fights.
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
forced 50% nahh definetly not.(sarcasm)
whenever i get a winning streak my next matches are full of br/ruskis/new players
nah man the mm is completely working as intended
If Valve has control over how matches are played out how exactly did they block you from even touching a tower for 43mins as naga?
Lol, Zano;
@Sampson, yes, I do have 13 tower dmg obviously, what's weird with that? I can't risk attacking the tower while it's only 2 or 3 of us against 3 or 4 of them. What are you trying to imply?
Am I being subtle? I think I am being blatantly obvious that you contribute to your losses as much as the people you are trying to blame. I just picked out a match where it was sooo obvious how much you fucked up and you come and say 'well it was a good match we all worked together nicely'. Take a loss like a man and stop trying to blame others for your own faults
Yeah an accumulation of mistakes on each persons part usually sums up the loss. I did find it funny he left that game out. Yuck!
@Sampson: I'm sorry, you might be correct, I should download the replay of the game and see where I went wrong and try to correct those mistakes in future games.
Considering you picked a game where I didn't complain about my team mates because, as I already stated, I believe we did good as a team, we just didn't have the damage needed to finish the game with a victory for us, I feel an urge to share my point of view:
The 13 damage done by me could probably be explained by the fact that I've been the solo support in our team. As much as I tried to push the lane from a safe distance using only my illusions, it didn't work well since DP's first spell is instantly destroying them along with the whole creep wave itself. Probably it's worth to note that Enchantress has 0 damage done and Lifestealer has 39. But as I said, I enjoyed the collaboration that we had as a team.
I decided to go through the rest of the games that I won while playing support and check the tower damage for comparison: Enigma, 2.9K - fair enough damage, probably your point is valid; Omni, 744 - fair amount of damage but still not a lot considering that we have to go through 12 towers to win the game; Rubick, 538; Dazzle - 939; Shall I continue or you got what I mean already?
Look, let me put it simply - matchmaking has no ability to "spoil your day" or "force a loss". Just think about it. How would you even create a system to force people to lose and win as you wish? Matchmaking already gives you leeway when your team's mmr is lower than the opponent's by giving more points for wins and less points for losses and vice versa. Do you conceited people really think that matchmaking has the ability to identify which Russians/Brazillians/Drunkards chose English as their language to shorten queue time and put them on your team so as to give you a loss? How would it even guarantee that you lose or win?
If matchmaking could force a loss then why does swiftending have such a long winning streak when playing the 3k account as he climbed up to over 4k+?
Yes, matchmaking has its flaws. Yes, it's a imperfect system and it could be better. But having teammates who make bad decisions or throw the game is not something that matchmaking can always account for. Matchmaking has no idea who is going to play worse than usual any particular game. There are good games, and there are bad, and not every bad game can be blamed on the system. I would wager that even if matchmaking somehow tightened the queuing such that everybody has the exact same MMR on both teams, you would still get plenty of complains about lopsided game. Such is the nature of team games.
Everyone has bad games, and games with bad teammates. It is fine to rage over those games, to feel frustrated, to blame people. But enough hate for a system that, to be honest, does its job decently for the most part.
What wink said
why would you complain about pinoys when playing on SEA servers
Like me going to russia and complaining about the amount of cyrllic im seeing
Sampson, Zenoth, why cant you both still handle the truth about forced games? It's as obvious as that the sun is bigger than the Earth, really.
A nice example of mine - though I have had like 100 examples like this in my dota 2 carieer - not so long time ago I managed to win like 10 games in a row, then I lost 1 fair game, and then there were 3 losses with trashcans 30 min games no knowledge of meta or heroes. Not forced at all. Taking my experience in consideration, it's easy to say twas forced losses. This shit happens like for 101 time for me. Either it's super bad luck (as well as many players have for no reason), or... forced Volvo shit.
You are like that people whom Tesla showed the lamps of his invention and still they didnt believe it was possible, lol. Get smart, pls.
And btw, by endless asking "HOW CAN VOLVO?" you cannot prove that this doesnt exist. If we cannot explain how, this is not an argument for. Learn some logics maybe.
For fucks sake fagt. You're exactly like those people who insisted the earth was flat in spite of strong evidence that it was round. You haven't refuted a single of my arguments logically, perhaps you need to take a lesson in semantics? Your examples are just a series of confirmation biases - as valid as mine, but of no effect on how the system actually works. The burden of proof is on you to support an outlandish claim deviating from the norms and you have failed to provide a single logical argument despite being so vocal about this subject.
Too bad your best argument is to attempt to convince me how much I suck or how stupid I am.
You do realize maybe the other team got fed and your team stopped trying? Happens alot in NA Dota.
Zenoth I don't know if you read my post on the other thread. I do want to bring one issue to light.
What I don't understand about matchmaking (and I pointed this out in the other thread) is the fact that so many games are lopsided.
In fact, in 2 games today, I gained +33 for the game I easily won while lost -34 for a game I lost badly. Read that again and then tell me that makes sense.
(For those who still don't understand, +33 indicates other team should have advantage, and that a lopsided win is unlikely. -34 means our team should have advantage, but lost.)
http://dotabuff.com/matches/521524208
Got a NADOTA 3 stack (darkfalco, insil, and the last guy who I don't know) and everyone worked together like a charm. They played extraordinarily well. End score 50-19.
Image for proof:
As you can see, I gained +33. According to the MMR system, this game should have been imbalanced in FAVOR of the opposing team, yet that was not the case. We won every single lane except bot - Insil died twice, and then roamed successfully, as any good player should when put against an impossible lane, i.e. TB + Lich.
A game earlier that was cancerous:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/520994403
The Rubick and I help kill Potm at level 1 (she suicided into neutrals), and yet somehow EG.Fear managed to win the lane by killing Luna over and over. Potm helped kill her with arrows after the impale landed. To address one of Zenoth's points: "Matchmaking has no idea who is going to play worse than usual any particular game."
This is true, but there is no way that Luna should have been in that game. Died a bunch of times in lane. Shit item choices, shit skill build. Literally 0 redeeming qualities.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/520994403/skills
No ult at level 6 on luna, went glaives at 5/6. Did not even get Drums/Wand despite being owned in lane. Any -apem player (for those who played dota 1) who isn't complete garbage knows to get luna ult at level 6, (in fact anyone above 2.5K MMR should know to do something so fucking simple) yet you expect me to believe this player is simply "playing worse than usual?"
What's really happening is that this player was placed in a game far above his skill level. FAR above. Literally, he played like a 2.5K MMR player.
NOBODY above 4k MMR or even 3.5K MMR should play this shitty. NOBODY. Even on my worst day, I would never do something as blatanty stupid unless I was throwing, which the Luna was not doing. These people need -2000 MMR to be put in their correct bracket. Look at his stats page:
http://dotabuff.com/players/114548738/matches
Note his horrible scores. In everyone's strings of losses, people will sometimes break even or go positive. He just goes 0-11 or some stupid shit like that.
There's no indication he was throwing, because he didn't say "OK guys I'm feeding right off the bat" and he showed a genuine effort to win. It's possible he bought the account or something from a highly rated player, but in that case VALVE NEEDS TO IMPLEMENT A PROGRAM to prevent this from happening, or at least make their MMR drop to the appropriate level more quickly. Ideally they could raise the uncertainty after loss/win streaks, but I won't get into details.
Image for proof of points lost:
http://i.imgur.com/KPlJtpP.jpg
Note: I am NOT blaming MM for losses. I realize I could play better in most games where I lost (whereas the number of games that are unwinnable at the start are relatively tiny, probably around 15%; that game with the shitty luna is an example of an unwinnable game, because someone with < 3K MMR is somehow in a game where the players should all be 4.5k+).
"I would wager that even if matchmaking somehow tightened the queuing such that everybody has the exact same MMR on both teams, you would still get plenty of complains about lopsided game. Such is the nature of team games."
This is true - people are going to complain regardless, but maybe that's not the problem. The problem is that a bunch of overrated idiots are getting into my games, calling mid, and overall being useless.
By the way, these are 2 games I've played TODAY out of less than 10 games. Given the results and the fact that the deck was stacked against 1 team at the start, those 2 were definitely "edge cases." 2/10 seems like a huge margin of error. On a regular day it's probably 1/10, but 2/10 is pretty unacceptable.
Edit: Regardless of whether I'm correct or not (which I'm sure I am), it's not like anyone on dotabuff forums has the power to change the system, so you can think whatever you want. Not sure why I bothered posting in the first place since nobody here can make the necessary adjustments so games are more even, but if you think the MM system is "working just fine" I suggest you analyze your game records. I find it hard to believe I am the only one getting these types of cancerous players.
oh god another 2 shit games
http://dotabuff.com/matches/521489242 fail of a storm initiating on a linkens medusa
http://dotabuff.com/matches/521594506 and this fail of a weaver... really joke during teamfight does nothing but attack creeps, so much items so little impact.
i wonder why vulva is punishing me with this.
Who cares about MMR point? http://dotabuff.com/matches/520906006
My team own enemies the whole game but I buy 2 divine and drop purposely for Terrorblade and they reverse the game.
DOTA2 is a video game to have fun. As long as I get my fun, who cares about losing 25point MMR, I still got 4k
When will the retards at Valve make the "Don't match me up with/against party if solo" option available again? That would literally improve most solo queuers' experiences by 500%. I don't care if I have to wait 8 minutes, or even 10 minutes. It should definitely be re-implemented.
@Symphonia
Thank for you partaking in a rational discussion instead of brainless bashing like majority of the horde here.
You are right about your first game. Your team was favoured to lose, but out-performed the enemy team. Is this necessarily matchmaking's fault? It is possible. Looking at the game though, noone on both teams played a hero on their most-played list, except Ember, who is currently sporting a 69% win rate with Ember over 111 games. His Ember is most likely fairly exceptional, and the Radiant team in particular all lacked any form of escape mechanism, leading to a fast snowball out of control. As you said, your team basically won all the lanes, which is a product of both skill and hero picks. Personally I feel that it is acceptable that the team favoured to lose wins occasionally. On average the better team will win, but game-by-game it could go both ways.
As for the other game, that guy is obviously either over-rated or switched players on that account. No one could possibly go on such a long losing streak if he got to his particular rating by merit of his own games. It obviously negates the possibility of a "forced 50%" win rate, because the according to fagt the system would force him to win, which it obviously hasn't. As for the problem of players buying higher rated accounts or something similar, that is not a problem for matchmaking to address.
I have no love in particular for the matchmaking system. It is true that that will be cancerous players at every bracket, and regardless of your rating you will get matched up with them. My only point is that this isn't matchmaking's fault. Neither does matchmaking attempt to brute force a 50% win rate.
Zenoth, so maybe I have to tell this one more time - you say that games are balanced for you, I say it's because due to kda. Having higher means newbs gonna come into your team, but you still dont agree, sorry, but I cannot raise your kda so you can make sure that I'm right. The thing that you have some good games just proves my point, not yours.
And fucking open your eyes - every time - EVERY time after a losing streak you gonna have a team of 0-10 guys for several times. Bad luck wtih 100% chance? I so doubt.
Yes, definitely. I carry games with mercale on my team against poloson, I play with the top players of SEA region regularly. I just played with another guy from Mith. Tell me about how KDA matters so much. In fact, my examples don't even matter. You are wrong, but this isn't the point. We're trying to debate the logical aspect of the issue here. Unfortunately you seem to be only capable of resorting to Ad Hominem arguments.
Fucking open my eyes? How about you fucking open your eyes. TELL ME THEN. WHY HASN'T SWIFTENDING MET A LOSING STREAK ON HIS SMURF ACCOUNT AFTER WINNING SO MANY GAMES?
Matchmaking can't force a loss, dumbfuck. When you play outside your scope, you are more likely to lose. Accept that fucking fact and move on.
You still haven't explained how it is even conceivably possible for matchmaking to force a win or loss. You don't even understand the basic fundamentals of logical arguments and you come and talk about logic.
You are the scum of this forum and community.
"WHY HASN'T SWIFTENDING MET A LOSING STREAK"
There is a pretty strange fact with this guy, and i need know in what server does he play, because i never saw him getting feeders and throwers on his games, i mean sometimes he gets REALLY bad players, but we all know that we all get that typical guy who just feed on purpose and there is no way to win with someone like that in your team, but he doesnt get this kind of guy on his team, like ever.
Plus somehow people always let him play mid or safe lane.
btw lie i think everyone has bad games.
For example http://dotabuff.com/matches/423575816
In this game i fed a lot, i did a lot of mistakes, but if you look at my winrate with OD is about 70 % that means that i usually win with him but in this particular game i played really bad, valve cant look at this kind of things.
But it is true that some players will be lucky, some people will win a lot probably because someone is carrying them, maybe bad support players who stack a lot with better players, maybe even people that only solo queue will get lucky and end with a high mmr thx to people who carry them, that its why i dont agree at 100 % with MMR working by winning, but its the only plausible way that this system could work, probably every other system could be exploited.
I feel you,
Retards in pubs are unavoidable , that is when you solo matches. Yes you control the outcome of the match to a certain extent but you can't control retards who want to feed in bottom or mid lane while you are in the off lane trying to control the enemy team's carry.
yes. But this is not a team game.... no you must do everything by yourself in order to win. You have to be support carry mid off lane warder pusher defender ganker nuke and all of this in the same time. Failed on these? GG scrub l2p volvo tha best.
Also have you noticed that when you go on a winstreak the next game are full of russians/feeders/br and others?
EDIT: my friend has also noticed this crap. And they say it's not forced 50%
if you can not control the match that means that you are in the MM range that you should be. That 'forced 50%' is just the outcome of MM working and putting you exactly where you should be.
enlighten me mr. know-it-all how can you control a match where you're facing a decent team while your team is doing nothing(wandering around the map)
by pushing? nice joke push alone get ganked gg
by ganking? if they are smart most of the time they have tps
by turtling? it can work if your team is defending(most of the time they don't)
and by your logic if i win 4 matches i should be put with bad players? because i won? so i am supposed to lose or what?
dota 2 is a team game and you can control the game to some point but in the end you still need your team to win.
^nah bro valve knight logic: if you can't win the game 1v5 you're a scrub and you deserve to be punished.
Valve almost made me quit doto if not for this lifesaving game
http://dotabuff.com/matches/522052947
For all you dumb fucks, here's some logic 101:
Proposition: Matchmaking is trash because it forces a 50% win rate (eh Raspharus, somehow despite this you can't even get a 50% wr)
Prerequisite 1: Necessarily matchmaking must have the ability to give wins or losses as it dictates.
Prerequisite 2: For 1 to hold, there must exist players that guarantee a loss (Brazilians/Russians/Whatever, take your pick)
Prerequisite 3: Matchmaking must be able to determine who these players are purely from their Matchmaking Rating and the region/language they select when they queue.
Contradiction 1: Matchmaking has no way of identifying these so called 'guaranteed loss players'. Matchmaking may not be a good system but at the very least the rating is usually balanced on both teams, so that only leaves language. Which plenty of people tick everything to shorten queue time.
Contradiction 2: Players that so-called guarantee a loss are no exempt from the supposedly forced 50%. Therefore it is impossible for them to have a 50% win rate while simultaneously being put in your game to drag you down.
Contradiction 3: There exists plenty of players with win rate significantly above 50% while solo-queuing, which alone contradicts all the prerequisites.
tl;dr - your arguments suck so bad.
http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1398477
swiftending http://dotabuff.com/players/86751819 is currently 48-3 on this account http://dotabuff.com/players/110289963 This is what happens when your level of game play is above your matchmaking rating. Simply because your team has an advantage you are much more likely to win. Matchmaking is incapable of forcing him to lose simply because he is good. It doesn't even try. All it does is slowly raise his rating as he wins, and match him against appropriate opponents for that rating.
Breaking news: people who rage about matchmaking are often bad.
Чтобы оставить комментарий, пожалуйста, войдите в систему.
Another rage thread... Because im too pissed..
Valve you spoil my day
http://dotabuff.com/matches/520007008
Retarded 4 stack, OD went NAKED BKB into MYSTICSTAFF
UNDYING went DAGON
2 Feeding supports...
...
...
...
and this...
Look at the level difference of my team mates and me.. while the safelane was constantly harassed till i cannot farm, yet i got a BF and CRIT and was lvl 21. #FML
http://dotabuff.com/matches/516541885
Does anyone know how to report these matches to Valve so that i can have a better playing experience?
Feeling so pissed off right now... Not a single enjoyable game.