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24 комментариев
cpt.rolgram

    Insightul article with nice ideas.

    forsoothplays

      "Think, Icefrog, think!"

      forsoothplays

        Now that the meme is out of the way, I'd like to say that the reasoning used to call for a rework of Omniknight is similar to the reasoning Riot used to rework a couple of their own hipster characters back in 2014, Karma and Xerath--characters that were loved by the people who actually played them, but with pick rates so low that people would even forget they existed. In my opinion, both reworks resulted in a loss of diversity rather than a gain. Karma went from being a unique but surprisingly powerful support that could sometimes be a midlaner to a cookie-cutter mage that was filling the same role in the game as other mages like Lux, and even had her lore retconned. Even her appearance was completely redone to fit in with the rest of the LoL cast. (I guess three modestly dressed female humanoids was just too many for Riot...) Xerath preserved his aesthetic and lore identity but had his mechanical identity completely stripped and replaced with something chimeric. And in his case, his pick rates didn't even improve long-term.

        I'm talking about my experiences with that other, inferior MOBA to explain that low pick rates shouldn't necessarily be a justification for a rework, especially when the reason isn't that hero's objective strength in the meta. In fact, I believe having some popular and some unpopular heroes actually increases the perceived diversity of a MOBA: you have several "normal" games where you deal with the flavor-of-the-month characters, and then occasionally--suddenly--someone pulls his hipster trump card out of the closet, and that particular game feels a bit more refreshing. You can't have that experience if all of your characters have similar pick rates--every game becomes a "normal" game by default, unless one of the teams intentionally breaks the meta for kicks.

        On the other hand, it seems like Icefrog is loth to destroy the identities of DOTA 2 characters, so maybe a rework wouldn't be so bad in his hands.

        Get Destroyed

          I don't think sniper needs a rework. It's fine to have a couple easy low skill heroes that aren't competitively viable but people still have fun playing them.

          The Ancient One

            I have a 3 wins 8 losses record on Omniknight recently. I hope IceFrog or VALVe check my recent matches :D

            BohrInGame

              Idk why you mention that the hero is good but not fun so it's not pick much, then mention how in TI he was only picked once. TIs team play for $$$ so no one gives a shit about fun if the hero has 'undeniable strength'. Heroes that are need rework are those whose kit become useless with the addition of Neutral Item, like Silencer is useless once a flicker / mino horn / witchbane drops.

              Abyssal D2

                Zeus, Pudge, Dazzle and Huskar too.

                Brünk Hüll

                  @BohrInGame

                  OR just screw neutrals. In fact!!!!: Screw neutrals out of the game, and remove ALL talents that add extra functionality to heroes. Shard and Aghs is enough feature creep for heroes, and all this functionality could be moved to entirely new heroes. Nothing but various numbers boosts accompanied by little icons that specifically indicate what type of boon was selected when you click on the hero--no more requiring everyone to hover over the talent tree to figure it out. Picked movespeed for level 10? You get a boot icon next to your portrait. Extra agility? Blade of alacrity. Extra attack range? Gimme a bow.

                  But make owning both outposts give you gold as well as xp. Make that thing WORTH it.

                  Rakzor

                    I’d really rather not have any heroes reworked, it’s what keeps the charm of Dota in Dota: older heroes with simple kits. I think Sniper is very fun to play and can infact still dominate games.

                    If this game goes down the league way of reworking every old hero to become unrecognizable, people will QUIT. So please please if frog ever reads this stuff, don’t rework older heroes, unless it’s tiny changes within the kit which are enough to make them feel fresh. Thanks.

                    Megabyte Precisely

                      Bloodseeker desperately needs a re-work. The hero feels so bad right now.

                      Ebun

                        "To me this indicates that Omniknight is a mostly unfun hero to play."

                        You can always pick pos 5 like Lion, Rubick, Grimstroke, feed nonstop, lose. Sure it's fun. Or you can pick Omni and win effortlessly. It's up to you.

                        Rip+30

                          Precisamos de heróis simples para jogadores novatos

                          Fathomorg

                            Remove the active component from Take Aim, combine it with Headshot, tweak the numbers, then give him a new ability that gives him more agency (this ability could even be his concussive grenade, then rework the shard). We call this the Riki or Necrophos treatment -- combining a passive with an existing ability to make space for another. I also personally liked the old Take Aim active that doubled the range bonus for a single attack; it was really nice mid as it was a free power rune deny against anybody that refused to shove the wave and 50/50.

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                            Mira

                              Back in 2016 Omniknight was so good. They definitely should consider reworking him that’s for sure.

                              Voight

                                Maybe they just remove the passive part of Headshot, and leave it integrated in the active part of Take Aim. I think the drawback of only having it available when active would mitigate the benefit of not having to level up two abilities.

                                dota

                                  furion could need some rework
                                  he's the lowest winrate in every bracket
                                  almost ALL of his spells beside TP are outdated in a nudota perspective where towers are stongers, teamfights deadliers, tp scroll being in a free slot etcetc

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                                  michimatsch

                                    Maybe they could make the disarming grenade a normal skill for sniper and merge/remove the headshot skill?

                                    Dom

                                      Recently, experimented with omni he definitly needs rework to be fun, he was always boring hero, but at least he was super good supp, now he's not even that good. Need to rework at least 1 skill of E and R and to add stun in arsenal.

                                      .Zaga

                                        Sniper doesnt need to change, I think its important to have some easy heroes for newcomers. Omniknight though I think need some rework so he can be more versatile

                                        56k

                                          Repel was better all around. Right now omni has 2 dispellable buffs, and existence of witchbane with nullifier is making his strength questionable. Also by picking omni, team may potentially lack cc, and it's easy to kite GA, even easier than bkb.
                                          IMO there are some heroes who don't need a rework but are lagging behind the overall power creep. For example Lone Druid or Ancient Apparition. AA has not received any noticeable changes other than chilling touch(which is worse now). It's too difficult to land a good ice blast since everyone is dashing through the map at blazing speed. And usually, there are not more than 2 heroes that need to get their healing reduced, which is a job for spirit vessel. Also most Tinkers build Shiva's and Bane has got a new healing reduction component to Enfeeble, thus AA's healing cancelling kit stopped being unique.

                                          eric

                                            Nature Prophet needs to be reworked to where he can't just teleport all over the map and piss off players.

                                            D9

                                              Dota has this problem, that most spellcasters are in a very bad position right now. Omniknight is just another case of this. Power creep is very noticeable, to the point, that these type of heroes are borderline unplayable. Carries(and not only them) got so many possibilities to completely ignore/mitigate most of the magic damage/cc/heals it's absurd. Items like satanic, manta, nullifier, skadi, sange and yasha give you so much value on top of stats they already provide. Heroes like omniknight, pugna, oracle, crystal maiden, death prophet, witch doctor etc... are useless after game hits 30 minute mark and are completely reliant on their team to carry, because by this time most of their skills don't do anything and are easily countered.

                                              Vactastic

                                                Techies needs a different approach imo. In a techies game, only the player picking it is having fun,IF that, his teammates, his enemies are having none of it. In most situations it feels like an hour long or more trap with a random outcome. During a dota day, 2-3 games in and you get a techies game...how likely is it for one to queue for another after a bombing ordeal?