I AM THE FIRST SLOWPOKES

Bulldog said Kunkka's 25 talent change is a buff.

So.... GG

It's not surprising to see that the fleet is as effective as the tidebringer talent really. The opposing team could be hit by 3 ships, after all. That's a lot of damage and stuns with 1.4s escape time between. Paired with a Dark Seer that's a quick and dead team.

It's also not surprising to see the tidebringer talent go away, as the level of damage being applied is seen nowhere else in the game from that distance. There isn't really a fair answer to the damage being put out either, as it often came without warning, is on low cooldown (screws up blink daggers), and can even hit invisible units (potentially ruins silver edge initiations). And all he has to do is just get off AN auto attack.

In theory you could put out the same amount of damage in a fight now, but it dishes it out in smaller bursts more often. This at least provides opportunity to identify and address the situation.

The lvl 25 change for Kunkka makes him more of a fighter than a burst nuker. So going for that "one big hit" is not as appealing as before, but now you can get the aoe nuke with a 3,5 sec cd... And that is ridiculous too, but it probably gives the supports that 3,5 second window to do things instead of getting one shot, before going down with the second swipe.

Though, just played a game last week where I got one shot by Kunkka from 3k hp... And that is no fun... We still managed to win the game, but it was extremely frustrating to play against that. And it dragged along the game to 95 minutes. The dude bought 4 rapiers in the game and had 3 of them at one point in his inventory for quite some time. This is no-skill Dota, so they couldn't finish the game, they should have won at that point.

Got a question, "For example, Tidebringer applies its bonus damage on creep denies without expending a charge.". I didn't know it worked that way and I tested it in demo and it didn't seem to work. dealt on lvl 1 with tidebringer skilled once, more damage to enemy creeps (~70 without using the tidebringer and with q blade) than to my own (~50 again with q blade, which doesnt work on denies and with tidebringer being ready). Am I understanding smth wrong?

it is a buff for the pro scene and a nerf for pubs

It's demo mode. Go to demo terrain.

It's a buff:

Over 20 seconds you have 8 tidebringers instead of 5*1.5=7
Over 100 seconds it's 40 and 35.

The reduced cooldown also allows faster farming / better defense against mega creeps / more occasions for a crit on a tidebringer.

Also if the kunkka is lucky enough and gets 2 crits off in 5s he's dealing way more damage than a single crit in 4s. Sure you have time to react but it's much stronger in a teamfight late game.

You'll see a winrate discrepancy between both talents very rapidly in favor of the cooldown.

Ok,Let's see...Buff or nerf

GIVE ME BACK MY FREE 50% DAMAGE

I was very sad yesterday when I got to level 25 and saw the talent change cuz I had built the glass cannon build . After thinking on it I think I’ll just make some tangier items on kunkka so I can stand in a bit better to take advantage of the extra tide bringer hits . We will see how it goes .

So I did a lil math and building kunkka tankier I still crit for 1158 damage which still helps a lot in team fights even tho your not one shotting . Anyone try out kunkka as a 2nd tank for team like this building cuirass and heart ? Will have to rely on the Carry’s damage more at the end but I can see it helping team possible more because a lot of agility carries would appreciate having 2 front liners or atleast one if offlane isn’t tanky to let him do his thing but at the same time 1k crits is too much damage for enemy to ignore .

That first game I got so tilted seeing the change I actually threw the game playing like shit .

Overall huge nerf to blink crit kunkka lategame . Only way I can see this new talent being any good is if you stand in there and bang a bit allowing to to take advantage of lower cooldown .

Uhh, NO! Perfect time to nerf Kunkka. He was broken before pros were even playing him mid recently. The nerf wasn't enough though. I feel like you let him have the 25 talent, and instead nerf the base cleave of Tidebringer. That and nerf the dude's base strength. hes too tanky and hits too hard even in lane.

It has his lows if you already know the hero, honestly i play him a lot and i know how bad is for scaping or gettin caught. yet it is a great support / roam and as a mid lane works well too but u gotta be good. I do think is a little bit broken but just a little bit.

so is it a buff or a nerf??

Completly stupid Talent, because in the Lategame kunkka tidebringer Hits are depended from cooldowns like blink, SB or x-mark

I even think +50% would be Better if the Talent also would increase the cooldown to 10 secs... Nobody would care

How about level 25 talent increases cleave range by 50%. It would match the hero better than a cool down talent