General DiscussionI need to get better at team fights. Help!

This patch is win the lane win the game
If ur good at laning then make sure to translate that into a win, don't stretch out won games.
Team fighting comes from practice and everyone will make mistakes in it, so idk what to tell u.

I don't think there will be any suggestion that can help you with team fight and decision making, you just need to keep playing more to gain experience and those things will get better.

My suggestion for you would be to watch a video or 2 on youtube, before you play each day (look for bananaslamjamma, Purgegamers, pvgna, and find the topics that you're interested.)

I'd played in 1k before on my smurf account, and I would say all you need to do to win are farming and hitting towers, no offense, but people in 1k seems to just play the game ineffectively as if it was a single player game, so to take an advantage on that point, you just need to farm faster than them and be an objective p[layer.

Bro it's not your fault, it's the TEAM holding you down! Don't be fooled!

Btw your crazy if u think a 18 yr old is faster than you in reaction time. 30-40 is prime time for guys, you got no confidence bro and that's your problem.

Judging from your post I feel like you don't understand Dota enough yet be able to just "know" what to do. The fights are always quick and you need to react with previous experience or knowledge for a good outcome. Plus when you pick a hero you should know somewhat of what you should be doing.

Example: If your a magnus dont be out front and die without using any abilities. Wait for them to jump one of your guys and then counter them with reverse pol. Mostly I wait for my team to start a fight cuz I'm not trying to jump in and have team not follow up, people are retarded make sure they go first if they have a decent initiator.

Basic crap like that will get you to be much better in team fights cuz you will know what u have to do and where you should be.

Thanks. This comment with Magnus for example is what I am looking for. I figured Venomancer is just the hero I need to spam a lot now. Won 3 games in a row, each with a different role: support, jungler and offlaner. I can just stand back and spam my ward left and right to scout for my team and when hell breaks loose I am in the backline and can just gale and walk in a bit to ult + I can also push and play the objective gaming. Last game I got beyond godlike, 0 deaths.

heroes that punish positioning like ember and storm are very good, also heroes that bait an overextension like dp, necro, slark are good cuz people dont know when they can actually kill these heroes, and they turn right around and win the fight.

1k scrub here, so do what you want with my advice, but if you need to improve your team fighting, download some of the matches from TI, (or any pro game really) and watch the teamfights over and over again until you can figure out what each player is doing and why, as well as whether it worked out for them.

try to understand your role in the team and your enemies before the fight, for example: supports like dazzle should stand behind the team so they can save someone with grave and heal instead of trying to hit someone, or if you have a stun and theres a Channeling guy in the other team that you can stop. Pay attention if the enemy team have any bkb, if you can counter it or not, prepare yourself for what you or the others can do. Try to practice with one type of hero and you will see how it gets easier with the time.

Keep your cool in teamfights
Know who to target
Know your job

@papump. No problem bro, keep practicing and you will be 2k then 3k in no time.
Practice makes perfect.

It is all about knowing your role. If you are playing the 3, your role is generally to start the fight (centaur, clock, etc) your 4 is there for counter initiation (ES, mirana, slardar) your 5 is there to save people with Staff, mek or cape and your 1 and 2 do the damage

If you are playing clock for instance, your setup is on the enemy dazzle. This way you either kill him or force him to grave himself. If you land your combo on an enemy and the dazzle is in the backline, you get no kill and you're then probably dead.

Whoever said know your role is 100% right

3 and 4 are interchangeable in this initiation and counter initiation role tbh, especially since a lot of 3 heroes can be 4's as well (shaker, slardar, clock)
some 3's also dont fit this like np

Try to understand what your hero is supposed to do. Watch high mmr replays and see when they go, and who they go for. Often the decision is to do the most you can without dying. But then again this can play out in all sorts of ways. It depends on heroes u have on your team, and who u can hit kill in the other team quickly ( sometimes taking out supports is all u can really do) sometimes u need to take out the high priority target with high teamfight initiation and u win. Sometimes it's the enemy carry.

I'm not good at teamfighting myself. So maybe the only advice I can give is if they have strong team fight ultimates that punish positioning like Magnus enigma earthshaket sort of heroes. Pay very close attention to your positioning and never over commit for something esp if you are melee

Abuse the enemies weaknesses
If ur storm just keep balling on em if they split
Punish people who stick together if ur ember to get the chains, triple remnant

Low mmr supports usually panic a lot in team fights, they don't count spells, don't calculate damage, don't know who to go for. Avoid playing brainless cores like bb and dk, play glass cannons like Lina, drow, ta, sniper, Luna, sf, and force yourself to do those things I mentioned above, and don't panic.

3. teamfights
this takes a really long time to master. You have to know enemy spells, and their prioritizing. for example, as AM, I should always wait for their main spells and disables to come in, then blink onto their backline. Or if there's a Bloodseeker or LC, wait for their ulti's to hit someone then show myself. It's different for every hero. but supports usually don't mind throwing spells first. but It's always best to wait for an initiatior first. to be honest as long as supports get to use all their spells on the right target, even if they die, It's job well done. rest is up to cores.

4. Try to be among the first people to fit into the meta. when laning is short, take advantage of it and take strong early fighters like Spirit breaker (Or Silencer). If enemy is commiting to a 4 man push so early into the game they're losing net and experience.
It's usually best if you help your carry win lane by not being there too much so he can get all the XP himself. also pull creeps if possible so your carry ends up higher level than the offlane and can win lane by himself. After you have done that, go help other lanes. also be ready to TP in and save the cores anytime. pick good laner heroes though.

5. reaction time?? wut?
I'm a semiprofessional futsal player. My Dad is 55 years old. He plays as well as me..... That's high intensity futsal. this is Dota where people like me play with 200 ping. Reaction time is not the matter here. I remember not being able to adopt to situations when I didn't know the game too well. when things got messy I'd do some dumb shit because I wasn't expecting it. after some games you will be able to anticipate everything.

If you are support, basically your success in team fights depend on positioning. Most supports are targeted first, since they have annoying disables and are easy to take down. So be in the back. If you play dazzle, omni, cm, skywrath, necro, lion, rhasta, rubick (the former two can blink initiate, but after stay back).
If you play supports like pudge, ogre, earth spirit you just follow action and be in it. Position yourself right, then do what supports do

Necro is not a support! Triggered.

Even I know as an 1.5k trash that Necro is a position 1 or 2 core. lol

^ necro is also a good pos 3.

@OP when team fighting you need the following points in mind:

1. Engage only when the net outcome is positive. If you're diving into enemy shrine for a 50% hp lion, you're doing it wrong. Only fight when there is a clear objective, like ganking the enemy hc. Even if two of you die to kill the hc, it's worth it because it creates space for your hc.

2. Focus on not dying. Say you're a rubick. Blink is awesome on the hero. Being 900 hp isn't. Your job isn't to initiate and tank all the enemy spells. Let a BB or even Viper do that for you. Know your hero's role and wait your turn to engage. Get bracers if needed to beef up. Dying a lot will lose you the game.

3. Don't force team fights. Never do that shit. This meta snowballs hard. That means you could be 3-4 levels ahead, but one failed dive would give it all away. Also don't forget that ending streaks pays heavy gold.

4. Focus on items that will help u win team fights. Things like butterfly, satanic are great on paper but take forever to farm. Items like solar crest, vlads, drums, pipe, are much cheaper and really help out early-mid game. When you win the early-mid game, it's easier to farm the late game items.

5. Also from personal experience, it's easier to wait for the enemy team to make a mistake and over-extend, than to try and organize your team into taking objectives. Carry a fucking tp. Please.

Thats why you are 1.5 😀

@Stentorian

Thanks, your reply was very helpfull!

@kormoranas
well, yours was not.

i calibrated at 3k, ez :)
played dota 1 before moving to dota 2, then played many unranked games, didint even know or cared about competative gaming :)

I calibrated very low, because I have never played any similar game (moba) before and came from the hack and slash/arpg genre where I was used to just go and engage shit. I remember how pissed I first was when my friends told me that at level 1 I am weak compared to creeps, lol. Took me a while to realize this is not diablo2 where you just go wrek stuff.

I think you should try to play heroes that don't necessarily team fight. Like try playing Natures prophet in the offlane or jungle all he needs to do is push towers. Sure he can contribute in fights but his main goal usually is to rat. Split pushing heroes like AM can also be good because you don't have to join teamfights early. Just farm, push towers and when you get fat at least you don't have to worry of dying too quickly because your mega farmed. Remember, Winning a teamfight can be good, but destroying the throne wins the game :D

BTW, I think you should watch the videos of Purgegamers on Day9 learns DOTA. Will help you a lot :)

Maybe watch Slacks? In his coaching video, Purge complemented Slacks' teamfight awareness as the only reason he was 4.7k mmr. Just another source of replays as well as the pvgna and pro players mentioned above.

@Vote Pudge Arcana thanks, but that would not improve my teamfighting :) I don't care that much about winning, I want to improve, so I need to get this teamfighting right. I do watch Purge! Day9 is right the opposite from me, I think he is a terrible laner, but he does better in team fights than me for sure.

@PiesangSlagter thanks for the tip, but there is no way I will ever watch Slacks. 10 seconds of his voice will make me want to kill myself. Well I could watch him muted though, now that I think of it.

I've noticed it's crucial to know when to jump in on team fights depending on your hero and the enemy heros but once it starts only practice will help you but you can preplan when you'll engage and what not . I usually do best with a hero with good initiation becuase then you aren't relying on teammates for it and also if you are the initiator for the team you usually will know to jump in first or not at all .