It is all about those clicks per minute. As long as you are maximizing what you are able to do at that given moment, and given your current role, you are creating space, and therefore, having greater impact than you otherwise would have had. That's your job, first and foremost, as an efficient DotA 2 player no matter what role you play.
I remember hearing this before. And that's pretty much what I thought of reading this guide. You should do a Steam guide version of this.
as radiant i always find top bounty rune spawn high ground and shrine great spot for securing rat also bot shrine and start of the bot jungle high ground or the cliff. mid ward after t1 drops i think putting a ward behind the t2 gives a nice vision.
for dire to rad i like the early game on rad's offlane cliff, either rad safelane ez camp cliff or the cliff on the other side. the problem with rad warding is the best spots are all cliffs and down the cliffs the vision gets shitty and cliff wards get dewarded by good sups faster. i like putting one in the middle of mid after t1 drops in a way that it shows a bit of jungld too. then there are the obvious 2 top cliffs and one deep hard camp cliff. behind the t2s i would say is the less obvious place to put wards in all 3 t2s.
Camps basically make sure you stack the hard ones and pull them into safe lane at 53. I think dire and radiant both pull hard camp at 53 to pull wave back. That's what I got out of it anyway.
just tried this. Worked out amazingly. I actually missed a stack or two so item-wise i was a bit behind, but I ganked like crazy 4 minutes in. Even though our dual offlane was feeding jugg, we still came back.
Initially the team was not listening to me when I said group up and push after we had our lead, but eventually they did. I think it was easier getting them to listen to me because of all the ganking I had done. I died a bit more than I should have. If I had done the farming pattern correctly and had more items when I should have perhaps I could have not died at all. Also I wasted money on sentries attempting to find enemy wards, but they either were not warding or I could not find them..
lal, hi am one of the example guys. He coached me a bit (3hours talking and some testing of the early game rotation). The next day I trained a bit in lobby until i am confident enough to play with players. (i didn't perfected the early game jungling by now, but it works decently).
You have to try to convince your team playing with your/his gameplan. At start i just straigth point out jungling CM and tell them that i will jungle 4-6 minutes and start ganking afterwards if possible. I block mid lane and then it just starts. first 4 minutes are kinda auto pilot.
I still have much to learn and try to improve every game.
Good job Cookie with this pattern,
works out extremely good, although I sometimes mess up in the jungling process i still won 3 out of 4.
My games go mostly longer than 30 minutes because for my team mates farming the jungle is more important than taking a tower.
The lost game i got counterpicked pretty hard but we still could have won it. (https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3112154832)
I Love crystal maiden and also your guide/build, i had some time to spare and made a hero build and guide in the steam workshop/community
If you don't want me to have them up there cookie let em know i'll take them down, or if you want to be mentioned in contributers or whatever add me....
honestly you could have already done this and better i didn't look
I feel like at least for now, I don't need to break my ass learning this formula, and instead just abuse my 100% winrate necrophos cuz scrubs like me don't know how to play against that shit.
Well, after 18 games of solo q I can say that there is something good about this strategy; I have only lost 2 games out of the 18 I played!! Thanks Cookie! I'm almost 4k!
It helps that I already had about 30 games under my belt as CM before but what I think this strategy really did for me was give me the confidence I needed to really boost my gameplay. The main thing that counters this strategy is if the other team has strong roaming supports and they rape your team's lanes before you come out of the jungle. The other thing that sucks is when your safelane AM gets raped by a duel lane and goes "gg no support jungle cm end"
altho as i experienced sometimes enemy heroes against ur heroes are really slippery and u cant catch em like weaver and od (if u the only disable/slow) and void abd etc. and i believe in this matter u gotta just babysit the pressured line
I remember hearing this before. And that's pretty much what I thought of reading this guide. You should do a Steam guide version of this.
well done
Bump.
Cause good threads worth 1st page.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3113055313 (3.2k avg)
here is one stomp, midas is not good item on cm imo. just situational item.
as you said cockie https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3112950510 the game ended at 27 minutes.
Can you post some screenshots of where to ward? Specifically when you ward mid and enemy jungle. Also does this work equally for radiant vs dire?
^ up, same thoughts exactly. im quite confused with the camps too though
as radiant i always find top bounty rune spawn high ground and shrine great spot for securing rat also bot shrine and start of the bot jungle high ground or the cliff. mid ward after t1 drops i think putting a ward behind the t2 gives a nice vision.
for dire to rad i like the early game on rad's offlane cliff, either rad safelane ez camp cliff or the cliff on the other side. the problem with rad warding is the best spots are all cliffs and down the cliffs the vision gets shitty and cliff wards get dewarded by good sups faster. i like putting one in the middle of mid after t1 drops in a way that it shows a bit of jungld too. then there are the obvious 2 top cliffs and one deep hard camp cliff. behind the t2s i would say is the less obvious place to put wards in all 3 t2s.
Camps basically make sure you stack the hard ones and pull them into safe lane at 53. I think dire and radiant both pull hard camp at 53 to pull wave back. That's what I got out of it anyway.
Nahh it doesnt work ! 3k carry are shitters
Cookie has been watching some RTZ legit look at most of rtzs games and he does this as cm lol
just tried this. Worked out amazingly. I actually missed a stack or two so item-wise i was a bit behind, but I ganked like crazy 4 minutes in. Even though our dual offlane was feeding jugg, we still came back.
Initially the team was not listening to me when I said group up and push after we had our lead, but eventually they did. I think it was easier getting them to listen to me because of all the ganking I had done. I died a bit more than I should have. If I had done the farming pattern correctly and had more items when I should have perhaps I could have not died at all. Also I wasted money on sentries attempting to find enemy wards, but they either were not warding or I could not find them..
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3114528138
Thanks, cookie, this is actually working even in SEA region. Just watch my replay if you want proof, they're around 30 mins.
yep it is a pattern to end in 20-30 min in the 0-4k bracket.
one of the easiest ways i could think of.
p.s no i've never watched rtz
lal, hi am one of the example guys. He coached me a bit (3hours talking and some testing of the early game rotation). The next day I trained a bit in lobby until i am confident enough to play with players. (i didn't perfected the early game jungling by now, but it works decently).
You have to try to convince your team playing with your/his gameplan. At start i just straigth point out jungling CM and tell them that i will jungle 4-6 minutes and start ganking afterwards if possible. I block mid lane and then it just starts. first 4 minutes are kinda auto pilot.
I still have much to learn and try to improve every game.
https://www.icloud.com/numbers/0-HTl7SE19HKFY_l1z17DosNg#Dota2
my thoughts about each match after the coaching.
Good job Cookie with this pattern,
works out extremely good, although I sometimes mess up in the jungling process i still won 3 out of 4.
My games go mostly longer than 30 minutes because for my team mates farming the jungle is more important than taking a tower.
The lost game i got counterpicked pretty hard but we still could have won it. (https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3112154832)
i do this with venomancer. "D
slightly diff strategy. But you need to end game fast. late game its get very tough.
if you're interested i can write similar guides for different heroes
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=905383751
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=905361192
I Love crystal maiden and also your guide/build, i had some time to spare and made a hero build and guide in the steam workshop/community
If you don't want me to have them up there cookie let em know i'll take them down, or if you want to be mentioned in contributers or whatever add me....
honestly you could have already done this and better i didn't look
it won't load
if you use chrome check the far right of the nav bar, you may have to "load unsafe script"
remove octarine from lategame and add lotus, medalion, solar, ghost scepter and midas to situational.
and some sentries&dusts in wherever
everythin else is fine
ty for the accept cookie!
updated
ups, you also forgot the wand, it's a big part of the guide.
cm mana/hp pool is pretty shit, and this is a very active playstyle
believe it or not, that wand is a core item XD
although core i've left it in the early game block because you mention getting it around 10min
how does it look to you now?
thanks agian btw having a guide loaded with what you want makes life so much easier
@Cookie " if you're interested i can write similar guides for different heroes"
I would be interested in :
-Lich
-Warlock
If you would be so kind :3
ye it's pretty good now,
ghastly i don't play either one of those heroes, i'd have to start spamming them to learn them myself first.
i've meant from the heroes i play
Arc Warden
You just uploaded Steam guide. Thanks.
Subbed.
@Cookie
You have another Account?
Otherwise your Heropool is pretty small to choose from.
Well Lich is in your Top10 :P
Otherwise i dunno what to ask for :/
Thanks anyway ;D
I feel like at least for now, I don't need to break my ass learning this formula, and instead just abuse my 100% winrate necrophos cuz scrubs like me don't know how to play against that shit.
I'm pretty sure other jungly supports like veno or maybe even bloodseeker, sandking can make something similar wor but just a guess
His gameplay is decent, it is better to watch him for the shitposting
Currently spamming the maiden, this guide is really good, thanks! I personally tried many item builds, is it always bullshit to grab midas or drum?
how are you getting 11 min tranquils if you're following this guide ._.
also, nah this guide is active, 10-15 min tranq + wand + glimmer will win hard
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3121547670
nope. nope indeed.
I discovered your guide after a couple of games and I was pretty new to the hero, this is helpful :D
https://www.dotabuff.com/players/304667332
Wtf is this? I cant stop spamming cm help pls
rofl holy shit xd
Well, after 18 games of solo q I can say that there is something good about this strategy; I have only lost 2 games out of the 18 I played!! Thanks Cookie! I'm almost 4k!
It helps that I already had about 30 games under my belt as CM before but what I think this strategy really did for me was give me the confidence I needed to really boost my gameplay. The main thing that counters this strategy is if the other team has strong roaming supports and they rape your team's lanes before you come out of the jungle. The other thing that sucks is when your safelane AM gets raped by a duel lane and goes "gg no support jungle cm end"
Still trying to get 4k by first picking AM
altho as i experienced sometimes enemy heroes against ur heroes are really slippery and u cant catch em like weaver and od (if u the only disable/slow) and void abd etc. and i believe in this matter u gotta just babysit the pressured line
Does this give you 51 kills on CM? if not this guide is trash
How do you even have 30+ kills and still couldn't close the game out unless you're retarded
If you have 30kill and you dont get mega creeped by enemy team and you dont close the game u suck
@Cookie
You could have just said "jungle CM who ganks later" and posted the replay links.
bcus my loveley little scrub @Life's2short4dota no one would've understood what i would be doing because they have no idea how to analyse replays