I agree with jd, have you ever played TB vs slark or riki? It fucking sucks, they both ult when you need to sunder and kill you. Storm is really bad too but you would the modify your build to get a bkb I think. Clinkz before manta too will suck cus he can orchid you. Well if he has orchid before you have manta. He probably won't I guess.
i think that tb is nearly unplayable against tinker
this game i had terrible laning stage, fed like hell, had a jungler so couldnt recover really well from there and clock was on my ass (+ my carelessness and idiocy)
and when tb was like 8 0 8 or something and they went hg then i got agh from alch and they lost terribly
either way what do you do as tb against tinker
that hero counters like everything you do unless you buy bkb and try to somehow win a fight before it runs out
So if tb six against slark then why I win this game? Just asking casually what helped me win?
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2464621852 Keep in mind it was a 1k shitter match when I was somehow more shit than I am now
tb has a million ways to remove laser blind, naturally can remove ghost with diffusal, and can farm the entire map while tinker does his shitty turtle strat. if tb wins the early game but mysteriously cannot pick tinker off all he does is farm the entire map, hit 15 cs/min, then come knocking at 30-35 minutes with travels pike diffu2 manta skadi aegis and tinker is 100% hosed
and when you inevitably pick tinker off, tb does a shitton of damage. all it takes is one tinker death without buyback and you can easily get 2 lanes of rax
tbs good against slark imo. slark - single target type hero who does mainly physical damage. sunder ur friends or micro illusions away from dpact and sunder them or push with sentries like a sensible person
TB sucks ass vs Tinker, the hero isn't nearly as beast as he used to be lategame now that meta is disabled after you bb and 1 million illusion nerfs. Pretty sure being forced to buy mkb+bkb as an illusion based hero is pretty cripping on its own. If you rely on diffu/manta purge I'd like to remind you that Tinker can rearm the spell and cast it again on pretty much any illusion and have it bounce to your ass.
I think right now the hero isn't really that good lategame, doesn't snowball off kills like a Slark or Jugg can, its laning phase is ass. Your main strength is that you can 5-man towers insanely early and quickly which is why we've seen travels builds fall off in favour of treads+lance+raindrops. Compared to stuff like Luna you are a bit more squishy but you kill the tower much faster. Also even if you are deathballing around the map you can still micro illusions to keep your farm up so you have a better backup plan than most deathball lineups.
There isn't really a single meta counter that completely rapes TB (sand king excepted) but the hero is just mediocre compared to other options. I still feel he is worth picking but he isn't spamworthy in every game like he has been in previous patches. If your teammate picks SD and you want a freewin I highly recommend picking this hero.
I saw SD actually counter tb late game in DC vs eg at ti, cuz saksa wud disrupt fears illusions and then his own illusions wud man up and fight him. Disruption illusions r way harder to kill than conjure image ones. Pretty sick.
Maybe they cud nerf meta in effect but lower CD so its not a second ulti. I feel late game tb is bad cuz he needs meta to fight, and if he uses it wrong once the game cud be over cuz he cant fight.
^I am glad you are not making the balance changes rofl
That's like saying that Sven would be a better hero if he had 50% uptime on 100% bonus damage instead of 25% uptime on 200% bonus damage (100% uptime on 125% bonus damage is actually riki anyway).
cutpaste with the masterful insights as always. think jd just farms like a beast on TB. ez way to win is to just outfarm every1 right? if u can outfarm luna u've basically made up the difference, sortof.
"tbs good against slark imo. slark - single target type hero who does mainly physical damage."
I totally disagree. Early slarks main dmg is from pounce and dark pact. He's doing 300-400 magic dmg right off the bat, shadowblade hit and a couple right clicks and you are dead. And if you pop meta and burst slark down he ults and kills you. If you let yourself get low so you can sunder slark he ults to avoid the sunder. Sunder too soon before he ults and he just kills you. Slark is a really good TB counter early.
Late not so much, but early with just shadowblade slark can pick off TB at will if you are out of position.
And daddy maybe you crushed it cus ur riki had more farm than slark lol. Slark never built basher either which is really good vs tb for stopping sunder.
"Suddenly I think TB is a very fucking hard hero to master"
Maybe hard to master but his micro is not nearly as bad as like a naga or meepo or chen. Don't be afraid to try him, you don't have to micro perfectly to be effective with him. He farms fast and destroys towers pretty easily without mastering the hero.
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if you get scouted in the enemy jungle you can pretty easily get picked off, idk
I agree with jd, have you ever played TB vs slark or riki? It fucking sucks, they both ult when you need to sunder and kill you. Storm is really bad too but you would the modify your build to get a bkb I think. Clinkz before manta too will suck cus he can orchid you. Well if he has orchid before you have manta. He probably won't I guess.
thats why you get the manta quickly 4head
im pretty sure you can tp away from clinkz trying to kill you lol
good vs : sven,alch midd , jugg , lifestealer,bristle,chaos knight,drow,gyro kunka, lc,sniper,ta etc
bad: slardar,clock,dis,voker,lion,luna,morph,od,riki,sd,sk,timber,ww etc
if the enemy have no magical/pure burst dmg.. he is viable at all
I just got stomped by a tb+Chen lineup.
those motherfckers why didnt some of u pick tinker ?
^ he ain't no bitch
yeah tb vs tinker suuuucks. Except that manta can dispel laser, that damn march + rocket spam annhilates your illusions, he has so much magical burst.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2818445986
i think that tb is nearly unplayable against tinker
this game i had terrible laning stage, fed like hell, had a jungler so couldnt recover really well from there and clock was on my ass (+ my carelessness and idiocy)
and when tb was like 8 0 8 or something and they went hg then i got agh from alch and they lost terribly
that tb has nowhere near as much farm as he should
that tb is some next level trash
btw are u arin who had like flat 4k ??? nice mmr keep up i will try too
not unplayable, just not fun. You didn't build bkb vs a tinker + necro. You didn't do that much tower dmg either.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2684885519
i thought 5 slots by 40th is pretty ok
either way what do you do as tb against tinker
that hero counters like everything you do unless you buy bkb and try to somehow win a fight before it runs out
i would go there a cheap blink for tinker
So if tb six against slark then why I win this game? Just asking casually what helped me win?
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2464621852
Keep in mind it was a 1k shitter match when I was somehow more shit than I am now
tb has a million ways to remove laser blind, naturally can remove ghost with diffusal, and can farm the entire map while tinker does his shitty turtle strat. if tb wins the early game but mysteriously cannot pick tinker off all he does is farm the entire map, hit 15 cs/min, then come knocking at 30-35 minutes with travels pike diffu2 manta skadi aegis and tinker is 100% hosed
and when you inevitably pick tinker off, tb does a shitton of damage. all it takes is one tinker death without buyback and you can easily get 2 lanes of rax
tbs good against slark imo. slark - single target type hero who does mainly physical damage. sunder ur friends or micro illusions away from dpact and sunder them or push with sentries like a sensible person
Ur asking yet u braging out all the good things about tb, stop showing off blustar
I don't think so. He's asking if TB is viable, and when people suggest counters, he cites ways to circumvent the counters.
Actually now that I look at the game I think its cuz slark had 300 wish GPM lol
already had solid answers, well if he want to help others its OK. Dont mind me
i want to know if theres a meta hero that hard counters TB or something. void can kinda make ur life suck i guess.
just i never see TB in ranked games ever, and i wanted to know if there was a reason
TB sucks ass vs Tinker, the hero isn't nearly as beast as he used to be lategame now that meta is disabled after you bb and 1 million illusion nerfs. Pretty sure being forced to buy mkb+bkb as an illusion based hero is pretty cripping on its own. If you rely on diffu/manta purge I'd like to remind you that Tinker can rearm the spell and cast it again on pretty much any illusion and have it bounce to your ass.
I think right now the hero isn't really that good lategame, doesn't snowball off kills like a Slark or Jugg can, its laning phase is ass. Your main strength is that you can 5-man towers insanely early and quickly which is why we've seen travels builds fall off in favour of treads+lance+raindrops. Compared to stuff like Luna you are a bit more squishy but you kill the tower much faster. Also even if you are deathballing around the map you can still micro illusions to keep your farm up so you have a better backup plan than most deathball lineups.
There isn't really a single meta counter that completely rapes TB (sand king excepted) but the hero is just mediocre compared to other options. I still feel he is worth picking but he isn't spamworthy in every game like he has been in previous patches. If your teammate picks SD and you want a freewin I highly recommend picking this hero.
I saw SD actually counter tb late game in DC vs eg at ti, cuz saksa wud disrupt fears illusions and then his own illusions wud man up and fight him. Disruption illusions r way harder to kill than conjure image ones. Pretty sick.
he is viable but definitely slightly underpowered IMO
I think a cd ~20s reduction on meta, or slgihtly more hp for slightly lower armour would be gucci
Maybe they cud nerf meta in effect but lower CD so its not a second ulti. I feel late game tb is bad cuz he needs meta to fight, and if he uses it wrong once the game cud be over cuz he cant fight.
^I am glad you are not making the balance changes rofl
That's like saying that Sven would be a better hero if he had 50% uptime on 100% bonus damage instead of 25% uptime on 200% bonus damage (100% uptime on 125% bonus damage is actually riki anyway).
Blue stars conversating throwing around valuable insights unreachable by my 2k mind. Kreygasm
cutpaste with the masterful insights as always. think jd just farms like a beast on TB. ez way to win is to just outfarm every1 right? if u can outfarm luna u've basically made up the difference, sortof.
Suddenly I think TB is a very fucking hard hero to master
"tbs good against slark imo. slark - single target type hero who does mainly physical damage."
I totally disagree. Early slarks main dmg is from pounce and dark pact. He's doing 300-400 magic dmg right off the bat, shadowblade hit and a couple right clicks and you are dead. And if you pop meta and burst slark down he ults and kills you. If you let yourself get low so you can sunder slark he ults to avoid the sunder. Sunder too soon before he ults and he just kills you. Slark is a really good TB counter early.
Late not so much, but early with just shadowblade slark can pick off TB at will if you are out of position.
And daddy maybe you crushed it cus ur riki had more farm than slark lol. Slark never built basher either which is really good vs tb for stopping sunder.
"Suddenly I think TB is a very fucking hard hero to master"
Maybe hard to master but his micro is not nearly as bad as like a naga or meepo or chen. Don't be afraid to try him, you don't have to micro perfectly to be effective with him. He farms fast and destroys towers pretty easily without mastering the hero.