So what do you do then, ward outside of camps and pull creeps to them, max wards then passive? When you put down a ward does it show you the nice little boxes of where the blocks are just like when you place an observer ward?
What would you build too, support or core veno? I think core veno usually builds blink or shadow blade? Then aghs and some hp stuff?
Why don't you just tell people who are normal skill how to farm not your patterns. Have you seen rtz kill neutrals he always shuffle moves so you take less damage and pulls them out the camp to kite them. That's the shit everybody thinks is common knowledge but that is what makes you better and its never said.
Dont hear about any of these guys here, i jungle almost every game, if the hero has lifesteal he can get level 6 at 5-6 minutes, if he is tanky or has some form of easy regen he can get by 6-8, if he is a hero that can create or "capture" creeps he can get level 6 and decent farm at 4-5 minutes, if he is a hero that can do a lot of damage he is getting level 6 at 6-7 minutes.
4-5 level 6 - Natures, enigma, beastmaster, lone druid, naga, lycan , venom(Cuts your early game potential, since you can kill many heroes with the various slows)
5-6 level 6 - Blood, Legion, Lifestealer, wk(really bad jungler).
6-8 level 6 - tide, treant, wk(depending on the medium camps he suffers a lot), timber, doom
6-7 level 6 - ursa, bat, axe, sand king, dark seer, necro (shit jungler)
You should clear the small camp junt until you get level 2 or close to it, but only on weak junglers like treant, necro. and only once, so you dont take the abi for your safe laner to pull
On strong jungler, do the 2 mid camps, and alternate to them until you are level 4 or fell confident that you can take the hard one, them just farm those 3 camps.
All itens on normal junglers, talon - tangos(if you are a weak jungler) - shield - bligh stone is not required and only makes a diference on the big creps, as NP you could rush midas at 4:30 but they changed the dmg types so creps are more tanky, you get a midas at 5:40-6:40;
@dire wolf
u buy talon and 2 branches. when u jungle dire side cut all the trees beneath the medium camp and place wards on the edge to the stairs between the medium camps. first u can one medium camp (which one doesnt matter) and stack the other one at 0:54 or 0 :55. kill both camps and start planting wards on the right side of the middle medium camp. at 1:54 u should have killed both medium camps and pull the hard camp on the right. next kill stacked hard camp and clear medium mid camp and stack left medium camp at 2:54 and so on.
yes wards block the spawns, so press alt to see boxes. u can also set wards till x:19 into spawn boxes because they die after 40 secs.
i hope its clear now.
at radiant side its a bit slower but u get less dmg while kiting. just plant wards between medium and hard camp and cut all trees around the camps. at lvl 3 u should be fast enough to take the second medium camp to the right with stacking and same procedere like on dire side.
I'm definitely going to try jungle veno. Or maybe not cus I keep doing stupid compendium quests. But if I do!
What's a good carry veno build? Fuck support veno, junglers are carries! The weird thing is veno is actually an agility hero but has nothing that scales right click. So do you build right click or magic utility like veil? I was thinking going treads, dragon lane, shadow blade, aghs, upgrade to hurricane pike, silver edge, then finish off with butterfly or heart or skadi?
but i dont go clarities and tank the dmg instead of wards. if u micro some wards to target different targets u kill creeps faster, because posion sting is long dot. so this guy in the video is a little bit sloppy, but u get the idea
i either go first item midas or dagger. depending on how my teammates are doing. if game is under control i buy midas and afterwards dagger. with wards lvl 4 and poison sting lvl 4 u can farm camps with 2 wards just by passing them. u save time if u talon the creep with the most hp and if u micro ur wards -> 1 hit for every creep and go on next camp. remember to put wards into spawn boxes till min x:19 for better vision. so basically with veno u can farm while roaming between the lanes after u have dagger.
items u usually buy according to time -> midas, dagger, brown boots -> into phase or arcane, aghs -> thats the basic itemization; the rest depends on game -> buy sb when u need escape; buy octarine if u are doing well; buy sheep stick if team needs disable; and so on.. so basically its not good to buy agi items or carry items on veno. its better to buy nuke if have the money (dagon+ethereal). veil is also good item for its cost, but i personally dont like it on veno, cause the dots take way longer than veil lasts and u dont get much out of the int stats, since veno is a agi hero -> for the veil price u could buy silver edge upgrade for example.
Veno has a surprisingly high agi gain but his early dmg is pitiful. I went dlance thinking abt rightclick, realized it was retarded, the side tracked to veil aghs octarine. Then i went back for a butterfly and it actually helped me close out the game with the evasion. Thinking abt it eblade was probably better tho.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2567079340
ok i tested veno in lobby. screwed a bit up but my timings were: 4:15 lvl6; 5:30 midas; 9:30 dagger; min 10 -> lvl 11; when u have dagger its time to leave jungle and go roam. when i hit lvl 4 i ran out of mana and hp and went back to base. tp'd back. maybe its better with 2 clarities instead of branches i dont know. and maybe a deny at this point is faster. when trees respawn at 4mins or sth u need to cut at least a path in the middle medium camp (3 trees i think) to go on. when u have lvl 3 wards and lvl 3 sting u can clear all 4-5 camps.
Talon always. If ur bs u dont even need tangoes, u can go talon stout. However talon and tangoes and maybe ferrying a stout is the best. Tell ur mid alch to go soul ring and flip him off.
Your strategy has one pro and many cons, so let me get this straight
Pro
Your level 6 is 40-60 secs faster than me
Cons
1. You need wildkins to not spawn early
2. You need mid camp to not spawn these consecutively: cent cent or cent wolves or wolves cent
3. Your HP is lower than mine, so you are less likely to survive a gank
4. You don't contest runes
5. You rely on stacks not getting interrupted
6. You hog the courier twice for the stout and blight stone
7. Your recent Legion jungle matches shows 7 min Dagger, not 6 like the image you posted.
8. Your phase boots are delayed
9. Your win rate is lower than mine
10. Your KDA is way lower than mine
I agree that jungle legion(as well as lycan) cant handle early hellbears or wildkins or even cents. Oov helps with wildkins a lot cuz they have armor ye. Lycan can only clear the first large camp if he gets trolls or satyrs, the rest r too tanky.
i think the main problem why people are slow junglers is because they lack the ability to kite. u don't go straight up to the satyr with lvl1 and fight it. u talon it kite it to a zone where he can hit u 1 or 2 times and on his way back u hit him 2-3 times. u really need to know where the turning points of the creeps are to minimize ur dmg taken.
as lycan its pretty easy. wolves live 60 secs. so u spawm them in fountain at min 0:00 and get reg (same as np). so u have mana for another 2 wolve summonings. u should tank ur wolves the first lvls. if u tell me an easy way to upload lobby replays i can show u my veno and lycan junglings.
@jacked always buy talon first and bring stout asap. with bs, lc and wk i dont buy stout. good junglers which aren't that popular are sniper, luna, sven, magnus, jugger, wd, ns, treant.
huh, i spawn the at 00:09. I've never thought of kiting before until a puppey naga match and this thread. thanks guys.
I'll just post my general farming pattern here:
1.spawn wolves at 00:09 (and my starting items are talon and salve)
2.walk to nearest hard camp
3.if it has satyrs, centaurs or those green ranged creeps I take it.
4.If not, i go to nearest medium camp and take it.
5. by this time i am on low health so i use slave.
6. when i am low on mana and hp i go to base.
7. i buy basiilus first then headdress then vlad's. If my jungling went well i get a vlad's at around 8-10 minutes but it my take longer because sometimes that solo laner wants help then flames me so i have to himand let him farm because i dont ant to tilt him even more.
that is my jungle pattern as lycan. usually i have to go to base 2 times. Is there anything wrong with this? I am wodering about my starting items. I go talon and salve while other people get talon and tango. I just find it easier to get salve. Which is more efficient?
ur start items are good, but do the medium camp first -> cut a tree so that only 1 creep can attack u. after the medium camp u should have the money for stout and clear it again. afterwards do what u want. furthermore i think u are bad at kiting because i need to go back or suicide (think suicide is faster) just 1 time. afterwards i have my morbid mask. do u summon wolves at fountain when u go back? same procedure like at the beginning.
get morbid mask first, than basi, and headress
when u face cents or bears make sure u fight only with 1 wolve so they wont stun u.
explain me how i post a lobby replay here on dotabuff and i can show u
For lycan u get basi and headress first because the armor and regen benefit wolves. It means they survive longer and means u will have more mana for more wolves.
You can dodge the stun if you move in to draw aggro with both wolves and your hero and immedietly move out of the range,it uses up around 3 secs but think the increased DPS from another wolf should help offset it shouldn't it?
^ ok if u are able to that, u can evade the stun. i either tank with one wolve and let him die or send one back.
@daddy if u have morbid mask u can tank all the time and ur wolves wont die anymore. so i'm pretty sure morbid mask is better first. also headress before morbid mask is sure not good. u get 3 regen instead of lifesteal? trust me i play 50% of my games in jungle. and i play a lot of different heroes
JDF8 could you answer a question?Its not related to jungling though
So what do you do then, ward outside of camps and pull creeps to them, max wards then passive? When you put down a ward does it show you the nice little boxes of where the blocks are just like when you place an observer ward?
What would you build too, support or core veno? I think core veno usually builds blink or shadow blade? Then aghs and some hp stuff?
There is a setting that you can enable to see camp spawn boxes when you press alt.That should help place wards without blocking right?
XD
Dont hear about any of these guys here, i jungle almost every game, if the hero has lifesteal he can get level 6 at 5-6 minutes, if he is tanky or has some form of easy regen he can get by 6-8, if he is a hero that can create or "capture" creeps he can get level 6 and decent farm at 4-5 minutes, if he is a hero that can do a lot of damage he is getting level 6 at 6-7 minutes.
4-5 level 6 - Natures, enigma, beastmaster, lone druid, naga, lycan , venom(Cuts your early game potential, since you can kill many heroes with the various slows)
5-6 level 6 - Blood, Legion, Lifestealer, wk(really bad jungler).
6-8 level 6 - tide, treant, wk(depending on the medium camps he suffers a lot), timber, doom
6-7 level 6 - ursa, bat, axe, sand king, dark seer, necro (shit jungler)
You should clear the small camp junt until you get level 2 or close to it, but only on weak junglers like treant, necro. and only once, so you dont take the abi for your safe laner to pull
On strong jungler, do the 2 mid camps, and alternate to them until you are level 4 or fell confident that you can take the hard one, them just farm those 3 camps.
All itens on normal junglers, talon - tangos(if you are a weak jungler) - shield - bligh stone is not required and only makes a diference on the big creps, as NP you could rush midas at 4:30 but they changed the dmg types so creps are more tanky, you get a midas at 5:40-6:40;
@dire wolf
u buy talon and 2 branches. when u jungle dire side cut all the trees beneath the medium camp and place wards on the edge to the stairs between the medium camps. first u can one medium camp (which one doesnt matter) and stack the other one at 0:54 or 0 :55. kill both camps and start planting wards on the right side of the middle medium camp. at 1:54 u should have killed both medium camps and pull the hard camp on the right. next kill stacked hard camp and clear medium mid camp and stack left medium camp at 2:54 and so on.
yes wards block the spawns, so press alt to see boxes. u can also set wards till x:19 into spawn boxes because they die after 40 secs.
i hope its clear now.
at radiant side its a bit slower but u get less dmg while kiting. just plant wards between medium and hard camp and cut all trees around the camps. at lvl 3 u should be fast enough to take the second medium camp to the right with stacking and same procedere like on dire side.
fuck i jungle too much.. lol
As veno shud u get clarities with talon for wards?
I'm definitely going to try jungle veno. Or maybe not cus I keep doing stupid compendium quests. But if I do!
What's a good carry veno build? Fuck support veno, junglers are carries! The weird thing is veno is actually an agility hero but has nothing that scales right click. So do you build right click or magic utility like veil? I was thinking going treads, dragon lane, shadow blade, aghs, upgrade to hurricane pike, silver edge, then finish off with butterfly or heart or skadi?
A lot of high mmr carry veno builds use eblade.
the pattern for veno as described above is like this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzfyEK-kV2A
but i dont go clarities and tank the dmg instead of wards. if u micro some wards to target different targets u kill creeps faster, because posion sting is long dot. so this guy in the video is a little bit sloppy, but u get the idea
i either go first item midas or dagger. depending on how my teammates are doing. if game is under control i buy midas and afterwards dagger. with wards lvl 4 and poison sting lvl 4 u can farm camps with 2 wards just by passing them. u save time if u talon the creep with the most hp and if u micro ur wards -> 1 hit for every creep and go on next camp. remember to put wards into spawn boxes till min x:19 for better vision. so basically with veno u can farm while roaming between the lanes after u have dagger.
items u usually buy according to time -> midas, dagger, brown boots -> into phase or arcane, aghs -> thats the basic itemization; the rest depends on game -> buy sb when u need escape; buy octarine if u are doing well; buy sheep stick if team needs disable; and so on.. so basically its not good to buy agi items or carry items on veno. its better to buy nuke if have the money (dagon+ethereal). veil is also good item for its cost, but i personally dont like it on veno, cause the dots take way longer than veil lasts and u dont get much out of the int stats, since veno is a agi hero -> for the veil price u could buy silver edge upgrade for example.
there was a pro game not long ago where a jungle veno had lvl 6 by 3:46, could just watch that replay on youtube.
@direwolf you go magic dmg viel ags your combo does like 2500 dmg after viel to everything you hit
Veno has a surprisingly high agi gain but his early dmg is pitiful. I went dlance thinking abt rightclick, realized it was retarded, the side tracked to veil aghs octarine. Then i went back for a butterfly and it actually helped me close out the game with the evasion. Thinking abt it eblade was probably better tho.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2567079340
man im pretty sure the build for veno would be like
ghost force eblade pike or some shit idk
mb veil instead of force and then skip pike for some other meme item
i use the hold alt to see spawn box setting all the fucking time, its amazing
and it helps with veno jungle yes
and i will answer questions AMA
ok i tested veno in lobby. screwed a bit up but my timings were: 4:15 lvl6; 5:30 midas; 9:30 dagger; min 10 -> lvl 11; when u have dagger its time to leave jungle and go roam. when i hit lvl 4 i ran out of mana and hp and went back to base. tp'd back. maybe its better with 2 clarities instead of branches i dont know. and maybe a deny at this point is faster. when trees respawn at 4mins or sth u need to cut at least a path in the middle medium camp (3 trees i think) to go on. when u have lvl 3 wards and lvl 3 sting u can clear all 4-5 camps.
while u move on to next camp at later lvls, order ur wards to attack different targets to maximize the dot dmg
and i forgot to mention glimmer cape for veno. cheaper than sb and good sup item
Fellow junglers. Iron talon or stout quelling to start for weak junglers?
Talon + tangos, them buy stout > lifesteal
Talon always. If ur bs u dont even need tangoes, u can go talon stout. However talon and tangoes and maybe ferrying a stout is the best. Tell ur mid alch to go soul ring and flip him off.
^ you dont need stout as blood, split the dmg, and clear the camp.
@JDF8
Your strategy has one pro and many cons, so let me get this straight
Pro
Your level 6 is 40-60 secs faster than me
Cons
1. You need wildkins to not spawn early
2. You need mid camp to not spawn these consecutively: cent cent or cent wolves or wolves cent
3. Your HP is lower than mine, so you are less likely to survive a gank
4. You don't contest runes
5. You rely on stacks not getting interrupted
6. You hog the courier twice for the stout and blight stone
7. Your recent Legion jungle matches shows 7 min Dagger, not 6 like the image you posted.
8. Your phase boots are delayed
9. Your win rate is lower than mine
10. Your KDA is way lower than mine
Can someone please answer this?
Fucks sake google it. Do i look like someone who is willing to fucking lycan practice match at ur will?
I agree that jungle legion(as well as lycan) cant handle early hellbears or wildkins or even cents. Oov helps with wildkins a lot cuz they have armor ye. Lycan can only clear the first large camp if he gets trolls or satyrs, the rest r too tanky.
i think the main problem why people are slow junglers is because they lack the ability to kite. u don't go straight up to the satyr with lvl1 and fight it. u talon it kite it to a zone where he can hit u 1 or 2 times and on his way back u hit him 2-3 times. u really need to know where the turning points of the creeps are to minimize ur dmg taken.
as lycan its pretty easy. wolves live 60 secs. so u spawm them in fountain at min 0:00 and get reg (same as np). so u have mana for another 2 wolve summonings. u should tank ur wolves the first lvls. if u tell me an easy way to upload lobby replays i can show u my veno and lycan junglings.
@jacked always buy talon first and bring stout asap. with bs, lc and wk i dont buy stout. good junglers which aren't that popular are sniper, luna, sven, magnus, jugger, wd, ns, treant.
huh, i spawn the at 00:09. I've never thought of kiting before until a puppey naga match and this thread. thanks guys.
I'll just post my general farming pattern here:
1.spawn wolves at 00:09 (and my starting items are talon and salve)
2.walk to nearest hard camp
3.if it has satyrs, centaurs or those green ranged creeps I take it.
4.If not, i go to nearest medium camp and take it.
5. by this time i am on low health so i use slave.
6. when i am low on mana and hp i go to base.
7. i buy basiilus first then headdress then vlad's. If my jungling went well i get a vlad's at around 8-10 minutes but it my take longer because sometimes that solo laner wants help then flames me so i have to himand let him farm because i dont ant to tilt him even more.
that is my jungle pattern as lycan. usually i have to go to base 2 times. Is there anything wrong with this? I am wodering about my starting items. I go talon and salve while other people get talon and tango. I just find it easier to get salve. Which is more efficient?
@dr. banana
ur start items are good, but do the medium camp first -> cut a tree so that only 1 creep can attack u. after the medium camp u should have the money for stout and clear it again. afterwards do what u want. furthermore i think u are bad at kiting because i need to go back or suicide (think suicide is faster) just 1 time. afterwards i have my morbid mask. do u summon wolves at fountain when u go back? same procedure like at the beginning.
get morbid mask first, than basi, and headress
when u face cents or bears make sure u fight only with 1 wolve so they wont stun u.
explain me how i post a lobby replay here on dotabuff and i can show u
For lycan u get basi and headress first because the armor and regen benefit wolves. It means they survive longer and means u will have more mana for more wolves.
You can dodge the stun if you move in to draw aggro with both wolves and your hero and immedietly move out of the range,it uses up around 3 secs but think the increased DPS from another wolf should help offset it shouldn't it?
^ ok if u are able to that, u can evade the stun. i either tank with one wolve and let him die or send one back.
@daddy if u have morbid mask u can tank all the time and ur wolves wont die anymore. so i'm pretty sure morbid mask is better first. also headress before morbid mask is sure not good. u get 3 regen instead of lifesteal? trust me i play 50% of my games in jungle. and i play a lot of different heroes
Make something for sk ya cykas