General Discussionstop picking np

Agreed

Oh hey, I was in a game with you a day ago

Its a week already that noone picked furion in my games

Furion is good in matches where you win early game and you just push every tower and keep your gold advantage and end the game. He is not good in low skill games where people just kind of walk around.

Lets safe for example you have a trilane in your safe lane, and they are pushing the enemy offlane tower, furion comes, that tower is gone 100%, your team puts down a few wards in enemy territory, goes and pushes mid, they will most likely be able to take it,

you get what im saying?

Now everyone on your team has tons of tower gold, and your supports / carries are getting their items while taking away the space your enemy has to farm, (if u ward their side of the map)

He is good for punishing line ups who cannot fight / defend early..

Yes you do feed enemy but you can still win easily if you dont let too much time pass and your team just does what they are supposed to.

and if you have no counter push aka wave clearing heroes, GG bro

i personally hate picking / playing against NP tho

Most of em probably doing the quest lul

Well its good if the furion is active in my game furion just tp to radiant cliff and then afk lmao

Yeah, I used to think Natures Profit was a cool hero, just like Pudge, then fucking noobs just ruined the whole image of the hero for me, I don't playing him, and I don't like him on my team. I don't mind playing against him though, free wins, but then again, I just don't wanna see that fucking hero at all.

I like how OP is tilted with just 2 games of NP.

Its op with stron push line up with:

- chen
- Exort invoker
- beastmaster
- jakiro

http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2396706280 - 5.2 k avg, 16 min win

^sadly enemy team picked ultra mega super insanely mad garbage heroes.

bald bitch gets wild with snakes LUL

give me a sec, ill finish watching shindler's fist and switch to this

^did bald bitch got wild with snakes yet?

i thought she already did, but apparently she hasnt got to her full potential of wildness yet

Like most heroes he finds a different place in higher mmr matches (5k+) BUT yes you are ABSOLUTELY right he is a terrible hero who was once a god of the meta, and noobs have a very hard timing giving him up even though he has been all but useless for several years. I cant speak to his validity in un-ranked as i only play ranked games, but at about 5-10 ranked games a day i haven't seen a np win a game (on my team or enemy) in easily over a year, and that is not for lack of trying it seems every 10 games or so someone will pick him up play horrifically and blame their team. I'm usually raged on for asking an ally NOT to pick a np they are hovering over in picks, and always rebuke enemy np players attempting to complain about their team to the other side.

For those of you on the fence about the hero i can go over some of the reasons he used to be good, and why he isnt not.

Good things about NP
1. Global tp allows him to rat efficiently, and almost always secure a fb and currier kill early game
2. Ents allow for a moderate defense against an aggro lineup who lacks real wave clear (like ganking teams)
3. Like Alc, he can almost hold first - third place in net worth

Bad things about NP
1. Jungling, (not everyone does this and some will say the only valid np is offlane, but lets be honest if people are feeding with him from the forest good luck trying to 1v3) even when done properly and with ganks weakens all 3 of your lanes, meaning games can very easily slide out from under you in the first 10 mins.
2. His ult steals farm from all allied lanes, you might think this isn't such a big deal, but it really really is. Not only does it take farm from more important heroes it also pushes the waves and this (especially during the early stages of the game) makes it much easier for the enemy team to gain and hold a gold and exp advantage, which leads us into the next point
3. He uses his gold poorly, you have probably heard this said before and might not understand what it means, gold is gold, right? Wrong, because of how well and quickly he can farm, valve has experimented with his stat gain, like Alc, he can get a huge gold lead but he lacks the stats to efficiently use what he builds most of the time (Sheepstick is probably the only exception to this, unfortunately lower skill bracket players never build it) for example we have all seen the classic "wannabe carry np" some combination of deso/daedalis/maelstrom only to get out-damaged and dominated by an un-farmed support. This is due to his very low stat gains in str/agi, he can deal dmg but cant take it, and cant deal it quickly. This issue feeds into him taking gold from the rest of the team, he drops their net worth over time to raise his own net worth, however since he cant use said gold well each time he casts his ult he is giving the team 3 different kinds of advantage (helping enemies farm, giving enemies exp, preventing his team from farming).
4. He is useless to your team comp (higher mmrs will disagree as they are more likely to build teamcomps that synergize well with eachother). To clarify, while he can pick up a fb and a few currier kills, once midgame hits even if he has a few core items built, he will have very very little to offer. the closest he comes to a disable deals no damage and can be easily escaped by most heroes, be it a leap blink etc. or any ability that destroys trees (there are a LOT of these), his global tp is always an amazing ability, but its use is really limited to where he goes and what he can actually get done once he is there, Ents dont scale out and will pretty much always only be a gold and exp source for the enemy team, and his ult actually hurts his own team. Nomatter what he buys he will be an easy pick for the entire game and with next to no kill potential he brings less to a team than bonus gold would provide.
5. The meta is against him, and has been for a long time. Be it storms time in the sunlight, leshrac's time with his wave-clear, even the zeus/od/invoker meta (plus spec ofc) that is just now fading away, sb and tinker (two of his biggest counters) are pretty much always in the meta in some form, and now we have slark and sven with ss poking his head around the corner, there really is NO space for rat comps outside of the occasional clinkz/AM/lycan strategy and even then it requires great team-play and map awareness.

^WOW that fucking wall of text, I bet 99.99% of people not even gonna read that LUL try to say as much as u can in a very short sentence.

He can be good but you need to either be in a situation where you can win the game by ratting, early pushing or early ganking.

If you can take t2 and keep lanes pushed but your allies can't pick anyone off then the map control is wasted.
If you can't break raxxes and they can turtle a hc like spec you will lose late. (spec is np worst counter)
If they have a 1v1 ganker (lc, slark) that gets ahead you will feed all game.

However if they don't have a counter pusher, or anyone who can threaten your rat (blink, invis initiators), you can win games from behind by forcing enemy to not team fight/push.

His two win conditions are pretty much win the game early with ganks or with the game with rat when your team is losing. The skill in the hero is all based on judgement and awareness which is tougher to learn than mechanical skills. This is why when he was 40% in pub he was a top contested hero in pro.

NP is a decent hero but nobody knows how to play him the right way, even in 5k.