General DiscussionMMR is all about luck~

+/- 300 might be luck, +/-1000 isnt luck

Dota as a game is designed to be played as a 5 man Captains mode game.
It's sad that this is not a common practice.

that only apply to somewhere higher mmr than me now 3.5k ... my highest mmr is 3.8k n lowest 3.2k

i mean, u can still be sure that a 4.5k plaeyr is better than you, and a 2.5k is worse. random deviation occurs within a rather small range.

No offense but if you aren't climbing with OD spam, then you most certainly don't belong at a higher MMR. Unwinnable games exist but they don't happen that frequently.

It's best if you stopped focusing on MMR and improving yourself.

numerous 5-6k players bought 2k accounts to experiement and is able to consistently climb up to 5-6k with around 80-90% winrate. Do you still believe this is luck?

play with high mmr players, watch replays and work on your mechanics / map awareness.

I have no idea what should i improve , i know all the mechanics and i looking to play with high mmr players , my friend is at 4.4k and i dont see the difference between us .. we play together since d1

you don't see any difference because of your bias towards your own skill. you don't notice your own mistakes and that's natural. people don't like being self critical of themselves.

sure your knowledge of game mechanics like how spells and items interact with each other but that doesn't necessarily translate to game wins if you lack mechanical skill or general game sense which are arguably more important and have a higher game-changing impact.

for example it is possible to waste a linken's sphere cooldown with spectre's dagger without linkens blocking the dagger, and having that knowledge might help 1 out of 200 games, but what about the other 199? having that knowledge is useless. game knowledge is situational while mechanical skill and general game sense (like map awareness) is all purpose, so it's useful in every game no matter what hero or role you're playing.

this is why a 6k player with little experience on a hero will still perform better than a 4k player who has many hundreds (or thousands) of games on a certain hero and knows all the small tricks that you can do on the hero, because a 6k player's higher overall skill has a bigger impact on whether the game is won or lost compared to the small extra efficiency plays that a 4k player makes.

Most likely you can't even see the difference in skill because you literally cannot see it. It happens faster than you can see.

Watch the replays of yourself on 0.25 speed. Watch yourself in the lane failing lasthits. Watch yourself in gank situations reacting too slowly and overreacting. Watch yourself not properly attack walking. Watch yourself getting juked because your move commands are not as tight as is possible. Watch your hero stand still during teamfights for 0.5 seconds here and there instead of using an item or ability in time for it to help.

These differences are what causes the best players to win more. I see these errors in every single replay I watch at every MMR level and they are ALWAYS critical to deciding whose hero lives and dies in a confrontation. The higher MMR you go the fewer mechanical mistakes are made and the less room for error is allowed by other players.

It is easiest to see in the case of disables. Whoever disables faster wins. Once you are disabled your options are limited, maybe to nothing but accepting your death. But these small mechanical advantages become victory and defeat as they add up over the course of the game translating into item, level, and positional advantages.

I'm 1000% convinced that winning in 3k is all about the draft.

I play a game of solo ranked, enemy team pick spectre of course. I had to pick clinkz for the battlepass challenge quest. Someone on our team first picked Earth Spirit. Okay, so I'm not going to voice my complaints about that even though most earth spirits players in 3k are terrible at the hero. I say go dual lane, pick something like undying so you can pressure her. Our mid picks DP and then the others in the team are like "let's pick a pushing line up - pick Lycan". I say no that's a bad idea. An earth spirit/lycan lane can't pressure her at all. Guy picks Lycan anyway. Doesn't finish Vlads. Doesn't build necrobook. Just goes mask->BKB->Heart. The disruptor in my lane sits in the lane doing nothing but leech exp, doesn't roam or stack while the enemy wraith king just jungles from level 2. We lose obviously, and the enemy mid Ember gets 30 kills. Unfortunately since I'm on Clinkz I can't carry the morons (got a 30% winrate with him, he's actually so bad). Sometimes it really is just your moron team mates fault for not listening to you when you have a lot better idea about what makes a good draft and just think "pushing lineup = lycan".

Next game I have to pick clinkz again. Team mate first picks Drow and afks for most of the game, whatever at least they are providing +50 damage. Enemy pick bounty hunter to counter me so a team mate picks slardar. Sir Swirl who I'm partied with picks Necro so they run a necro/slardar offlane which actually shuts down the enemy offlane. I'm involved in 62% of the kills and Sir Swirl is involved in 69%. Enemy Void doesn't work well with Slark+BH because of the chrono. He goes the offlaner build so he does no damage. Got 47 cs in the first 10 minutes which isn't amazing but I was rotating around the use clinkz's creep eating ultimate on the big creep and try to gank a little (ended up causing a triple kill feed at the enemy bot tier 1 but I think I made up for it). Luckily a misplaced chronosphere towards the end which captured 3 team mates but left me just outside meant that we were able to get 4 kills on the enemy instead.

Morale of the story - picks matter.

my playing style is aggressive as i always play ganker/initiate , i decide my move in sec when i see enemy is alone / out of position ... but i don think much you can do if u r not the main carry and ur team is not decent. for eq : no supp , no ward , no carry or group of carries who keep farming all ard .

pick really does matter , like this game http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2180154826 , srsly i 1st pick spec , next sniper , morph and pa coming out .. 4 carries team yea gg ...

besides, i believe there is bad luck for me recently like i said what is the percentage for u team with same ppl in mmr for 3 games in a row, and that result me 3 lose in a row becoz of that spoiler . Guess i must pray more than improve my skill , one man show is not existed.

in 3k draft wins games, but mechanical skill can turns things around. most games can be won if "u played better"

u may know every interaction in the game like i do, but putting them into practice through memory that benefits you is the hard thing (for example, i know how to creep aggro, but i almost never use it because i always forget)

and btw, if ur hero is a hero that can win a game on their own (slark, OD, spec, lycan), then u have no excuse about throwers and bad teamates because a better player could've won that

one thing i learned from watching a better player coach a 2.5ker like me is to play around your enemies' stupidity, while not being stupid at the same time

what im trying to say here is that knowledge about the game dictates what your options are in a game, but it's really your mechanical and memory skill that determines when, how, and why you would use your options, if you can actually use them for the proper situation, and you can actually perform those options. that's what separates you from your friend

i know that from experience since i also have friends who are 4k+ mmr, and while the amount of things we do right are the same, i significantly do more mistakes than them

Hello rick_zai,

I will be your doctor today.

*examine*

You got a case of bitch that think you belong in higher mmr. It wont kill you, you will live, but probably never cure it. Its a really bad case since you think you know all the mechanics and can't see faults in your own brain. Probably little penis, goes to gym to compensate but skips leg day every time.

I'll write a prescription for fuck you to take to the end of days.

Man I just wish I get 3k asap, people in my bracket barely know how to win games, poor macro and shit really ruins my snowball, shit 5 man meta rn even ruins it more

hello thunderyard ,

no offense but i don fking talk to smurf acc .

dude you playing good, sometime you will lose but it is normal. Continue play to improved your mmr.

try sea server before u talk to sea people, its just frustating. Im not bitching abt the mmr, its the people, i miss 2k people, they are friendlier and much more fun to play with. 3k is just hell

Okay look at this match - http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2238181910

Pudge+necro bot, completely destroy it. 5 kills in under 10 minutes. AA is shut down and can't show his face in lane or he'll die the whole game and has no impact as a result.

Strong lockdown from the 3 stuns of Venge, Pudge and Necro. The necro got off reapers scythe like 12 times leading to the enemy being dead for many more minutes than they would otherwise. Pudge and Venge able to save people from Chrono. Drow was able to farm well despite dying early a few times and being against a line up which should be able to pick her off easily. I do okay, got kited a lot by invoker though.

Compare that to the enemy. AA and Void safelane gets wrecked. Invoker does okay scoring some early kills but can't carry solo. Weaver gets some out of the lane. I get ganked at 8 minutes so my farm stops there for a little while. AA so poor that he can't deward a single one of our sentries (and none of their carries buy one to help him out).

So the team with 2 strong dual lanes, 3 strong stuns and a mix of support and carries wins once we take a good fight while the team with 4 carries and poor ass solo support loses.

I m going from 4300 to 3800 at the moment, the tilt is real :D

I just had a jungle doom rush mek and after he got it he farmed 10 minutes more after that, MY BRAIN HURTS.

I feel u bro...
I can say 1 thing, the difference of 500mmr is very small if u compare a match with 3500mmr average and 4000mmr average. On the other hand, the difference of 1000mmr is quite large if u compare match with 3500mmr average and 4500mmr average. So if u are around 3500 and your friend is 4400, im quite sure he is more skilled than you, not by much though, but you are unable to see the difference.

Just dont bitch on little mistakes yiure teammates make, they barely are game-changing and not worth moping at for 40 minutes. Macroefficiency like creating space through ganking or pushing, knowing when to rosh and stuff, initiating, are the things the win or lose you games. 2ks suck at it, despote a couple of them having decent skills at the micro level, will not always guarantee wins cause dota rn is a team effort. Theres a reasons why towers are weaker rn.

Btw want to play with me? Solo q is pure bs nowadays

Guy,if you want to win the game...
do a lot of HD AND TD. Your HD 40k. Your TD 436... I do not know much english

lol gg op #tilted

@一直SONG thx , i think i playing decent but don feel like rushing to climb up for mmr now ... i almost forgot to enjoy the game
@Perkele indeed, 3k is the hell and hardest pool to get out ...
@Murranji carries team is disaster ...
@Groundcontrol to Major Tom nice win rate but sry for ur recent result ... everybody hv their bad time ( i mean bad luck) , thats doom is ntg compare to my team naga ... free farming whole game 50mins no contribute to team and eventually throw the game
@Kobby i think its about the play style between us before calibration , i used to play ganker/initiator and i don care abt my score , i just want to win , its result in low kda /gpm/xpm that cause my mmr starting at 3.6k

@G_G nowadays i really don wan gv a damn to my teammate when playing solo mmr ... but i donno how to mute players, ppl will blame u no matter wat , and when you tell them wat to do they start irritating : u commanding me like u r the leader? even when i ask for sod , nobody care ... it take 1 min to gather all the mates and miss out the good chance to war. Add me friend on steam , yea we can play together when im free , but my computer is under repair .
@S R E Y u know y? its becoz nobody wan to push together , team nvr stick in 5 and feeding 1 by 1 . lots of kills i pick off alone when i see opp hero out of position.

Idk, it does seem that way, not for my own matches, I recognize my mistakes and for every game you have shit teammates you cost game you get one where you feed a lot and get carried.

Like this mid and offlane got rolled, I had zero space to farm, but I also messed up and died to magnus a couple times just barely.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2237852490

But here, we had zero business winning this, I contributed next to nothing other than blinking in and stunning once and dying in teamfights, np was a last pick and went to cliff jungle enemy ancients so spectre had me for support and then no support when I went to offlane cus no one was there. But someone we still won. Got carried big time by that spec zeus combo.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2235138659

But here's where I agree with you. My brother has been spamming spectre and has gone from like 3500 to ~4200 in a couple weeks. He plays good on an op hero, but his mids like never fucking lose and he miraculously never has feeders. Here's his hero and a couple choice games. The rare occasions there is a feeder he doesn't win, but it's like 1 out of 8 games vs the normal 1 out of 3 it seems for most people.

http://www.dotabuff.com/players/46141730

Look at these spectre games, no one like every feeds and his mid almost always wins
http://www.dotabuff.com/players/46141730/matches?date=&hero=spectre&skill_bracket=&lobby_type=&game_mode=&region=&faction=&duration=&timezone=America%2FNew_York

His whole team sucks, gets carried by TA mid
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2234418452
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2234539556
carried again
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2227846844

I have not once seen a 3k player play well consistently. What alot of 3kplayers don't realize is that there are games where u need a bad score to win the game. Being 10-0 cuz u chased a CM around all game when they took your rax does not mean ur team played poorly it means u suck

and that's what I'm saying, for every game you stomp, there's one you got carried and so on and so on which is why people stay at 50%.