I dont think Spec needs those kinds of nerfs, his shit early game already balances out his ability to convert net worth to carrying skill. I think the meta needs a bit of tweaking so she doesnt roflstomp every other game.
Although I once posted how I'm playing less dotes for a while because of Spectre spammers everywhere, one good reason for it is because I cant play my comfort heroes anymore if what I actually want to do is win
Spec should not get nerfed, Invoker should and knowing Icefrog, he'll just nerf the most annoying 1-2 heroes and just buff other lesser picked heroes. I'd really like to see a dusa/morph meta so I can spam some AM :D
This patch was supposed to be the balance of power , yet give spectre a vangaurd and diffusial blade and she is more annoying than every hero in the game.
I'd say nerf her dispersion , her str and agi gain. And desolate is not too bad.
Needs no nerf, least of all to her puny HP. Medusa has 2.2x the EHP at level 8 with just one level of mana shield... AM has more magical EHP with 1 level of his spell shield. BS has more EHP overall. Vengeful Spirit has more. PA has way more with just one level of blur (and don't tell me the enemy carry is sporting an MKB when everyone is around level 8!).
You guys say she needs no Nerf but ur forgetting that in 1k-3.9k bracket, even tho u know u have to shut her down, in solo que u will have retards who
A. Don't even speak your language.
B. Ignore your pings to gank / kill spectre.
C. Simply ignore you and say "well be fine late game"
D. PICK A FUCKING JUNGLER SO SPECTRE HAS NO PRESSURE AND FREE FARMS.
When you're playing solo que and ur not playing in 4k+ , you will MOST LIKELY get people who let spectre farm, and don't pressure her at all. Meaning even if you know you have to shit on spectre, u can gank him 1-2 times, but ur team isn't constantly pressuring, 5 manning early, its already GG.
Its not fun or fair for players who aren't 4k+ and want to climb in solo.
Imagine this, enemy picks spectre, ur team picks a jungler, and an offlaner who can't pressure spec.
Spec gets super fast early items and those items help him farm more and you most likely lost. Esp since its harder to stomp enemy when u have a jungler. Don't get me wrong, if jungler comes out of jungle and wrecks spectre, that's one thing. But very rare.
I love spec but she is not balanced .
She is balanced if u have a team who is competent enough to know, pressure her early, and 5 man, ez.
But the sad truth is many dota players think they are gods and they underestimate Spec.
@mile, your talking about Spectes EHP being low? She's one of the tankiest heroes in the game. 30% dmg done to her is negated and reflected to the enemy.
@NoCeilings - I was replying to an earlier post that complained that Spectre had too much EHP at level 8. 22% of the damage done to her is reflected, thus increasing her EHP by 28%. Of course, at level 25, with Skadi or Heart, Spectre is very tanky.
@NoCeilings - I understand, but that is not the fault of the hero. Let these noobs learn that they WILL get their asses kicked by even a bad Spectre player who is left alone for 50 minutes. I regularly play Spectre vs. organized teams with certain players hitting 5.1K MMR (though most are around 4K - 4.7K), and trust me, they make my life hell for the first 12 minutes. It gets worse in 6K+.
Spectre punishes passive teams. Good. I wish half the heroes did that.
Also, the changes to her Dispersion.... Speaking of being nerfed - the 6.85 changes make it so that enemy agility carries now perform better against Spectre, assuming your team has not bought many aura items that increase armor (in order of importance: Assault Cuirass, Pipe of Insight, Vladimir's Offering, Guardian Greaves, Mekanism, Basilius/Aquila aura). Your position 2 or 3 teammates must buy one or two of these auras, each, if you wish to retain your Dispersion advantage. On the flip side, the recent changes in Dispersion make Spectre even stronger against low-armor supports or cores, so you should now be able to eliminate the enemy positions 4 and 5 even faster. Your late-game may potentially be weaker in this patch if the enemy team stack up auras and Solar Crests on their cores and carries - the best way to counter this is to make sure that your teammates outdo them in terms of auras.
The 2 only not stupid nerf i could see for spectre:
Nerf of gold kill (why not playing on gold loss/death instead, we aren't lol, and that's one of the main reason mid are so greedy since they can snowball thx to it)
Overall buff of carry, so spectre isn't the only one playable. Kind of shame, 2 patch in a row carry were only playable cause they had a lot of nuke (gyro/sf) or cause they were doing particullary great against the picks (am/pl (luna versus am)) and yet for this patch we received major nerf on them (buff to gold kill, which mean they have to farm even more to have a gold gab to actually function -and need a bigger gold gab-) And the one that received buff were crap even comparing to other carry.
The only reason spectre doing so good right now is because it never was a farming machine, thus the gold kill increase actually helped it, since you really have much more money. and why ck (for example) doesn't shine aswell? well simply cause spectre is more present, better in current flaw of the game, need less to function, and more importantly synergise MUCH MORE with the other pick.
And ck had HARD counters, like a couple heroes that really fuck him up and are popular instant picks vs him. Earthshaker and magnus come to mind.
What's a hard spectre counter? Nothing really, just strong early game stuff, it's more of how you play than what you play.
"You guys say she needs no Nerf but ur forgetting that in 1k-3.9k bracket, even tho u know u have to shut her down, in solo que u will have retards who"
This is just not true, in 3k people pick gankers, roamers, dual offlanes a lot, and more often than not your shitty supports start roaming instead of winning lane for you.
My trilane with lina and dazzle turned into a solo vs necro lane when they decided to roam, dunno why they did that. Probably cus they couldn't kill necro cus he was hanging way far back and warded jungle (they never dewarded of course). So they got frustrated and left, then necro of course goes oh I"m 1v1 vs spec let me just cast one death pulse and my ult to kill him so ez.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2169546040
i hate how spectre suddenly got so mainstream. Back in the day she used to be an exotic carry <3. Anyway, she didn't get any significant buff. so no need to nerf her. fucking trends and metas and fashions.
Base movement speed + dmg/speed bonus on spectral dagger are hit hard, make her early fighting worse and suddenly her bad laning is much more serious without those 2 extra kills from global ganks. Like cmon is it really fair for one of the strongest lategame carries to be such an effective early fighter?
--10 moovespeed, less base str and str gain, worser base attack time, desolate to deal less dmg,
Radiance is overrated guys :-D Also don't touch her..
Haunt illusions shorter duration and 1 sec delay when using reality
no nerfs pls
great hero for pubs and nearly doesn't affect the profi games
^
-0.5 armor per hit on forge spirit and he is perfect balanced
HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX HEX
I dont think Spec needs those kinds of nerfs, his shit early game already balances out his ability to convert net worth to carrying skill. I think the meta needs a bit of tweaking so she doesnt roflstomp every other game.
Although I once posted how I'm playing less dotes for a while because of Spectre spammers everywhere, one good reason for it is because I cant play my comfort heroes anymore if what I actually want to do is win
Spec should not get nerfed, Invoker should and knowing Icefrog, he'll just nerf the most annoying 1-2 heroes and just buff other lesser picked heroes. I'd really like to see a dusa/morph meta so I can spam some AM :D
This patch was supposed to be the balance of power , yet give spectre a vangaurd and diffusial blade and she is more annoying than every hero in the game.
I'd say nerf her dispersion , her str and agi gain. And desolate is not too bad.
^???
Actually the last balance change Spectre received was a nerf to Dispersion early game
RREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Needs no nerf, least of all to her puny HP. Medusa has 2.2x the EHP at level 8 with just one level of mana shield... AM has more magical EHP with 1 level of his spell shield. BS has more EHP overall. Vengeful Spirit has more. PA has way more with just one level of blur (and don't tell me the enemy carry is sporting an MKB when everyone is around level 8!).
You guys say she needs no Nerf but ur forgetting that in 1k-3.9k bracket, even tho u know u have to shut her down, in solo que u will have retards who
A. Don't even speak your language.
B. Ignore your pings to gank / kill spectre.
C. Simply ignore you and say "well be fine late game"
D. PICK A FUCKING JUNGLER SO SPECTRE HAS NO PRESSURE AND FREE FARMS.
When you're playing solo que and ur not playing in 4k+ , you will MOST LIKELY get people who let spectre farm, and don't pressure her at all. Meaning even if you know you have to shit on spectre, u can gank him 1-2 times, but ur team isn't constantly pressuring, 5 manning early, its already GG.
Its not fun or fair for players who aren't 4k+ and want to climb in solo.
Imagine this, enemy picks spectre, ur team picks a jungler, and an offlaner who can't pressure spec.
Spec gets super fast early items and those items help him farm more and you most likely lost. Esp since its harder to stomp enemy when u have a jungler. Don't get me wrong, if jungler comes out of jungle and wrecks spectre, that's one thing. But very rare.
I love spec but she is not balanced .
She is balanced if u have a team who is competent enough to know, pressure her early, and 5 man, ez.
But the sad truth is many dota players think they are gods and they underestimate Spec.
@mile, your talking about Spectes EHP being low? She's one of the tankiest heroes in the game. 30% dmg done to her is negated and reflected to the enemy.
???????????
stopped reading right there
Just hex and meta change come on
@NoCeilings - I was replying to an earlier post that complained that Spectre had too much EHP at level 8. 22% of the damage done to her is reflected, thus increasing her EHP by 28%. Of course, at level 25, with Skadi or Heart, Spectre is very tanky.
@NoCeilings - I understand, but that is not the fault of the hero. Let these noobs learn that they WILL get their asses kicked by even a bad Spectre player who is left alone for 50 minutes. I regularly play Spectre vs. organized teams with certain players hitting 5.1K MMR (though most are around 4K - 4.7K), and trust me, they make my life hell for the first 12 minutes. It gets worse in 6K+.
Spectre punishes passive teams. Good. I wish half the heroes did that.
Also, the changes to her Dispersion.... Speaking of being nerfed - the 6.85 changes make it so that enemy agility carries now perform better against Spectre, assuming your team has not bought many aura items that increase armor (in order of importance: Assault Cuirass, Pipe of Insight, Vladimir's Offering, Guardian Greaves, Mekanism, Basilius/Aquila aura). Your position 2 or 3 teammates must buy one or two of these auras, each, if you wish to retain your Dispersion advantage. On the flip side, the recent changes in Dispersion make Spectre even stronger against low-armor supports or cores, so you should now be able to eliminate the enemy positions 4 and 5 even faster. Your late-game may potentially be weaker in this patch if the enemy team stack up auras and Solar Crests on their cores and carries - the best way to counter this is to make sure that your teammates outdo them in terms of auras.
I also purpose Agha nerf for spectre, seriously check it out, she has 2nd highest winrate for agha....
Goethe, hex had NEVER EVER had break.
The 2 only not stupid nerf i could see for spectre:
Nerf of gold kill (why not playing on gold loss/death instead, we aren't lol, and that's one of the main reason mid are so greedy since they can snowball thx to it)
Overall buff of carry, so spectre isn't the only one playable. Kind of shame, 2 patch in a row carry were only playable cause they had a lot of nuke (gyro/sf) or cause they were doing particullary great against the picks (am/pl (luna versus am)) and yet for this patch we received major nerf on them (buff to gold kill, which mean they have to farm even more to have a gold gab to actually function -and need a bigger gold gab-) And the one that received buff were crap even comparing to other carry.
The only reason spectre doing so good right now is because it never was a farming machine, thus the gold kill increase actually helped it, since you really have much more money. and why ck (for example) doesn't shine aswell? well simply cause spectre is more present, better in current flaw of the game, need less to function, and more importantly synergise MUCH MORE with the other pick.
And ck had HARD counters, like a couple heroes that really fuck him up and are popular instant picks vs him. Earthshaker and magnus come to mind.
What's a hard spectre counter? Nothing really, just strong early game stuff, it's more of how you play than what you play.
"You guys say she needs no Nerf but ur forgetting that in 1k-3.9k bracket, even tho u know u have to shut her down, in solo que u will have retards who"
This is just not true, in 3k people pick gankers, roamers, dual offlanes a lot, and more often than not your shitty supports start roaming instead of winning lane for you.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2169589131 Guy randomed nyx for my support, enemy team constant ganks with earth spirit, mirana and bh, so much that lc abandoned.
My trilane with lina and dazzle turned into a solo vs necro lane when they decided to roam, dunno why they did that. Probably cus they couldn't kill necro cus he was hanging way far back and warded jungle (they never dewarded of course). So they got frustrated and left, then necro of course goes oh I"m 1v1 vs spec let me just cast one death pulse and my ult to kill him so ez.
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2169546040
buff pugna strength and reduce time for first damage instance of his ulti. bye bye spec.
@matrice
6.84:
Hex no longer applies the Break mechanic
Your fact is invalid that it never applied break ever
It's not cause they don't even know about the mechanic of their own game that it ever applied break.
It was removing evasion nothing else.
No passif EVER got removed, even the part that isn't evasion of blur from pa wasn't removed
i hate how spectre suddenly got so mainstream. Back in the day she used to be an exotic carry <3. Anyway, she didn't get any significant buff. so no need to nerf her. fucking trends and metas and fashions.
Oh mai gawd post above me is LAMBDA WITH A THREE
Half Life 3 Confirmed
Help me im drunk
Base movement speed + dmg/speed bonus on spectral dagger are hit hard, make her early fighting worse and suddenly her bad laning is much more serious without those 2 extra kills from global ganks. Like cmon is it really fair for one of the strongest lategame carries to be such an effective early fighter?
his ultimate will cause no damage to heroes, disperse will distribute damage to allies
Just make her dispersion reflect damage to the attackers instead of AOE, her win rate will be dropped near 50%.
^Same exact skill as CW. Lets keep the variety, huh?
I hope she gets removed from the game completely together with her beloved dogshit comeback gold.
To be honest spectre had a huge jump in win rate in 6.82 with the huge kill gold buff and comeback mechanic and has remained in the top since that.
Ban badman lmao