General DiscussionOrcale, ursa and WK meta.

For the new Enrage on Ursa to outclass the damage of the previous one, he would have to get several stacks of Fury Swipes on the target before activating it. Activating it the moment you jump gives pretty much the same overall damage as the old Enrage. 80% damage reduction and purge sounds nice but originally you went Heart anyway so the overall survivability is the same if not weaker because its now a clutch skill. If you get Heart with the new Enrage then you have no damage once Enrage is down. But like I said, its not often you're gonna get several stacks of Fury Swipes BEFORE you use your Enrage. Besides, if you wait until you get a 4 stack then Overpower is on cd so you have to wait unless you wanna rightclick them slowly to death. If you build ASPD items then you lack initiation and survivability of say a BKB/Blink. How is it broken?

Oracle is insanely broken? Wasn't this the same shit people were spouting right before he came out? The new patch makes it so carries are considerably weaker so while it sounds 'awesome' that it continuously purges disables/debuffs, the priority targets of False Promise were BKB carriers anyway??

The only prediction you made that sounds reasonably possible is WK with his new Aghs upgrade. There seems to be no downsides to it other than if you do get it, you sacrifice a lot damage potential since he is fairly item dependent for his right click unless you get it really late.

Ursa = Unkillable for 4 seconds, massive damage, can't kite him since he can remove debuffs.
Oracle = Makes carry literally un ccable for 8 seconds. GG
WK = Focus WK, if you fail you can't win a teamfight

To every hero there is a counter a lot of the counters to these imbalances in patches is just good solid plays, and a lot of it boils down to picking good supports, and playing them well.

People have to adjust to win, not many are willing to change and these were the ones primarily crying about how bad this patch was. This patch has actually helped me personally be a lot more aggressive as a support player as well as attentive focus in team fights all round I say this patch has helped to isolate a lot of the weaker players in 5K games who have dropped since.

Looking forward to the stream/video, link stream and time when you can.

Ursa = useless, squishy with high downtimes
Oracle = ult is a 80 sec cooldown repel
WK = good

@havoc

See u on Friday :D

What time are we going?

People are overacting. I mean just reading the current oracle seems extremely op ult but he sucks as is.

Because people aren't good at playing him, and only seem to get better at the top 5% of players with the exception of a few. The hero is like winter wyvern with a mix of spells that are used defensively and offensively so most lower tier players won't be utilizing the hero in the way they can be.

Most 0-4800 ranked oracle players will just max dagon and try and go around hunting people whereas the better ones will usually dodge this item altogether as he has no problems getting kills in the early game and mid game provided you're active enough with him.

Yes which is why I feel it's just overreacting. Theorycraft is so much different than in practice. WK will be a better support, but aghs as a core on a carry is not a very good item to build. Maybe with new alch who can give WK aghs...

Well WK aghanims is garbage http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1426141188 support WK should have helped finish the game by about 30-40 and sure, if you go into an hour game then maybe you can weasel it in somewhere.

...and with alch I can just picture people being ricers for the sake of "supporting" the carry. So afk jungle till sceptre then use it on carry or smth which will suck vs an active team who won't let you jungle. Alch still kinda sucks.

I can confirm Badger's active WK (and some other heroes too) is pretty dope and i just love when people create good space for their carry, which results in fast ez mmr.

Ursa = I made an entire thread about why the new enrage is an nerf to Ursa. If you want to know why the new enrage is an nerf, read my thread (other Ursa players agree with me too).

Oracle = Ok, so False Promise continually removes debuffs. Sounds op, right? Well, no. The cooldown is now 80/60/40 instead of the original 20. This means that false promise won't necessarily be available in every early game teamfight like it was before. Furthermore, supports won't have to continually waste money on detection (at least for oracle).

WK = Aghs looks like an incredibly powerful item for wk support.

@havoc

I finish at 5:30 I will be at king's cross around 6ish

i really dont get the "oracle op", its actually a big nerf.
its basically a repel of 6sec with 80sec cd. as an ultimate ?_?

it doesnt even gives invisibility anymore lol ;p id rather have omniknight that this oracle :)

and GOOD LUCK farming agha with wk as support.

its just not worth it. all those agha looks flashy and cool in theory, but in real game situation, u buy dagger, not an useless item that gives some hp /mana for 5k gold and then eventually when some ppl near you die they get a grave for 5sec~

and there is just too much better support than him right now, so hes gonna be situational.

Who is Orcale? Kappa.
Idk about Oracle, but WK support will be legit.

ursa enrage is definitely not a nerf, maybe not as strong as some think, but not a nerf.