General Discussion

General DiscussionShadow Fiend

Shadow Fiend in General Discussion
Mr. Nice Guy

    what build do you think is the best build for sf? does it worth to get midas after min 7? what should be the starting items after last patch,when bottle is 700 gold. and does SB worth ? i allways go for blink-bkb,but is rlly annoying when a void gets a bash through bkb.. also,i saw dendi buying MoM :-??

    mwsqz

      first thing there is no 'best build' for sf and second thing every non pro player shouldnt be able to play this hero.

      nami

        MoM gives him aspd which if going for a damage build, he needs since he already has +72 damage.

        Midas isn't really worth it on SF, he has great farming potential already and its best to focus on his weakpoints such as being squishie or kitable.

        ddd666

          I like this pt- midas ( if i am really farming good) into domi. After that if i need a bkb i will go for it, if not i will go for skadi. Than if i still dont need a magic immunity i will for go a butterfly. If i dont have time for midas i will go for aqulia ring ( dunno if i wrote it correctly).
          I sometimes do blink dagger build too but that is if i have a carry farming well and if i can setup some kills with that. If you are going to buy it and go farm i dont think that it will do anygood to you.

          Androgynous

            midas is mainly for levels, and the downside of midas is that it makes you squishy until you get your next items, and it delays those items, but sf can farm very quickly to mitigate the downside of midas.

            kord1g

              pt midas HotD is veeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeery greedy and i don't think it is a good way to build sf.
              Blink is really good becouse enemies can't track you as easily becouse you just jump around the map so fast. It also helps with him being kitable, with bkb u can land a good ultimate, razes, position urself better, avoid ganks, and also FARM faster with the guy above me said otherwise.

              cupcakebruh

                I don't like the idea of midas at all, I really don't think it adds much to the hero. I mean the game goes one of two ways, you either need to rush bkb or you might have some freedom, where you can get HotD before extending into whatever you like. This is for sidelane SF obviously, if you are mid and have bottle you don't really need HotD until later and can instead opt for dagger/lothars/bkb.

                I like getting SNY, I feel that SF hits like a fucking truck already, the extra MS is really nice along with a little extra bulk - Manta is preferable against melee carries and single target disablers.

                THICC BABY SHUM

                  sf, bad hero this meta, dont pick)) best build for him is dom butterfly 20 min 100% u won

                  chompzz

                    SB is worth if you find them split pushing or farming lane alone. Go invis get right on top of em and ult - one shot most of the time with 30 souls.

                    Yes Bfly best item on him by far. Highest win rate

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                    Kryptnyt

                      Mask of Madness sounds amazing when you have allies to lock down your opponents. The burst!

                      NIKAD MAJNOVALA!

                        Mask of madness is good item against squishy supports or squishy carry heroes.

                        I sugest getting BKB with it, aswell Daedalus.

                        Sange and Yasha is snowball build, you should have it rly early.

                        Like: Shadow Blade + Treads + Sange+Yasha+Aquila at 20-22 min mark.

                        Other then that, getting that item later won't help at all. It's always better to upgrade Yasha into manta if possible.

                        Helm of dominator is another item that deserve mention, since extra armor/hp regen/lifesteal rly suits SB(low armor carry, needs decent armor pool agaist late-game carry heroes, but I sugest getting it with Manta/Blink build, since it works way better then SB+Domi build.

                        Skadi is another awesme build on SF, but it really depends on their pick! I've seen countless SF's rushing it, and failing completly after they got it, because of missing BKB.

                        I sugest getting skadi with some kind of high-dps build(Manta/Buter) or Etheral/Buter(etheral is usful early game only if u can land good razes though)

                        Desolator is also good item, but you need to buy it at least in 20 min mark, to be useful. DON't go deso against high-armor or evasion heroes like Mortred or, (backtracK) - void. Sven, Centaur and Naix is also no-desolator. Always get deadalus as your dps dealer vs this guys.

                        Not to buy on SF:

                        Euls(useless think on him, really. And I've seen people buyng it)
                        Forcestaff(No dendi pls.. Just no.)
                        Dagon(No!)

                        THICC BABY SHUM

                          mask on hero that has 1k hp is saying kill me pls

                          NIKAD MAJNOVALA!

                            Not really.

                            You just don't understand the hero, thats the problem.

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                            THICC BABY SHUM

                              good excuse

                              Androgynous

                                cant take increased damage if ur enemies are dead

                                NIKAD MAJNOVALA!

                                  ^

                                  Calling it excuse is funny, since you have 20 games and 20% winrate with such low kda.

                                  I've used madness many times, and it really helps against squishy guys like CM/Doctor, hell, even against Mortred when you have MKB and she does-not have basher.

                                  You are thinking that you are right, but trust me, you are not. Ofc, Madness can't be good pick against huge dps-dealers like Sven(also madness user,btw), Void(can be good in some cases-if he use his 1st spell, you can easy haunt him, but yes, I'd not make Madness against Void most of the time. Naix, since his core-items are Curias/Basher/Armlet or Cent.

                                  In other case, making madness against heroes that can't do much early to mid game is awesome choice, Since +30 extra dmg you'll take easy covers one BKB or a Shadow Blade + Drums/Sange-Yasha(rly nice fits with madness aswell)

                                  Don't talk about this you didn't try, or even if you did, you didn't do it right.

                                  BenaoLifedancer

                                    sf is too hard to win with if they go gay picks against you like viper and shit... don't bother playing him yet until they change the meta or give him a boost UNLESS you play him as carry in which casehe's very good :) so go ahead and pick him

                                    NIKAD MAJNOVALA!

                                      My post is a bit messy, since I'm sleepy as hell.

                                      But You can get the point I guess.

                                      If someone needs help for SF, add me. I'll do my best.

                                      NIKAD MAJNOVALA!

                                        ^

                                        Benao is right. You have to be realy good SF user to be effective with him in this meta.

                                        BenaoLifedancer

                                          http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/990641877
                                          http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/991700696

                                          both games too fucking hard to win!
                                          i used to carry sf mid to 5k whenever i wanted and these trashes are only 4,6k+ and i can't win games (just got lucky now).
                                          Meta is srsly fucked up its not and it punishes the types of heroes i pick, sf/mirana/drow. I just lost a game aagainst a trash magnus cause the ulti was autowin and i couldnt do shit. They would just 5-man all fucking game and even if i had a splipusher i wouldnt be faster cause thats how the meta works right now!

                                          In any case, sf carry is good cause then they don't depend on you, its you on them and you should be able to use your skills leisurely and just ride the wagon and carry them to victory.

                                          NIKAD MAJNOVALA!

                                            I think the 2 most important things when it comes to SF is:

                                            1. Take first 2 waves and grind-up souls

                                            2. Don't die(kinda hard these days..)

                                            SF is awesome farmer, has big nuke potential, awesome ults that scales well with AOE stuns/disables, huge damage bcause of necro, nice armor reduction...

                                            Btw, Benao, I used to build Curias a lot when I've started to play SF, but now I just build it when I have Desolator + Sange/Yasha.

                                            Other then that, I just think it cost a little too much and gives a little too low for Shadow Fiend. I think I;d always go for Manta over Curias.

                                            And if I have Manta, I'd probably go for MKB/Daedalus or even Satanic.

                                            I think he gets a lot of Armor if you make him Manta + Dominator, and I don't think he needs another armor/attack speed buff, yes, armor reduction and shits are nice, but a little to fancy and not that important if you're playing against Mortred or FacelessVoid, for example.

                                            No matter how big armor you have, when He's chrono or she crits you, you're pretty much dead 1v1..

                                            BenaoLifedancer

                                              i had a slardar against me? armor
                                              i needed att speed and madness was retarded and butter too far off and with maelstrom i kept being weak!
                                              also it helps meepo and it was my last item before gg game was almost over anyway and dude ive been playing sf for years i know whats best but thx

                                              Mr. Nice Guy

                                                i just hate to build shadow blade for shadow fiend,i m almost allways going for blink. it gives you more mobility,an escape mechanisem which sf rlly needs and a good initiaton. sb can be easy countered with dust/sentry. eul is good to land ulti 1 vs 1 and if u need some kind of stun to cancel tp. is good against NP for example,but i cant say i am good at using it.

                                                Serpent

                                                  So fun hero, but sucks late. No matter how good early game was and what you build, you get outcarried/focused every time.
                                                  Don't buy midas, stack jungle between waves/get decent support for that, buy blink and break faces, always farm when you are not doing anything else. Start pushing asap, if your teammates keep playing with their dicks then either rat or go afk farm and pray that enemy team is even worse.