General DiscussionIs Legion still decent at Jungle in 6.80

You shouldn't be jungling LC in the first place...

well i couldn't even wood before as legion, now, no matter which spot (don't count the littlest one) i lose at the very least 60% of my life on first one -60% lose is the 4 satyre ...-, and I let you guess what happen latter ^^

@fureur

You shouldn't be doing anything except for the small camp at first...

http://dotabuff.com/matches/518320266

This was a game where my LC jungled. Granted the other team wouldn't allow for a 4 minute pause when he dc'ed. Still won but... I ended up having to step out of lane and heal him so slark could get solo farm/exp. and so LC wouldn't have to go back to base or courier tangos/healing salves.

LC is not very viable for jungling Grimorum. Its much easier to safe lane your LC is where I would put it

Yeah IDK Fureur I never attack med. size camps LVL 1 on any jungle hero. That is bad news.

lol implying theres better hero to jungle with in pubs than lc

he can singlehanded take off anyone of the map and as the game progress and u win duels he takes out six sloted carries in just matter of couple secs

Can you guys hear LC use press the attack from 1000 - 1200 range away?

@wink, i've a friend that basically don't dodge any camp when he is level 2 (but ursa ofc) and that dodge only centaure and ursa at level 1.
and ofc, he dodge the littlest camp, since it's almost always warded, and that he doesn't have anyprob with other camp

He use in all for all, 3 tango (not even the 4th !) and he plays stout queling tango (like i did when i trainined my lc wood).
Anyway, now i went for tb wood, much easier, and i just hope not to get the ogre then centaure as first spot

-srsly that delete of xp, killing 3 ogre + little centaure, you are not even level 2.-

It was viable before, now it is noticeably slower.

You can do it in pubs, but not in serious games. Someone will have to pick up your slack on your team.

[color=#ee82ee]^I'd guess the more serious games gets played in CM, then u cant even get there hero)) -Boring to jungle either way, why not rape people in lane with that sick nuke instead)[/color]

legion is still viable at jungle.

Starting items:
stout shield, culling blade and tango

medium camps except centaurs are easy even at lvl 1
hard camps can be cleared at lvl 2 except if its uhmm bear, though the birds will be a bit hard but possible

core early should be: (still at jungle lvl3)
stout,culling,ring of bassilius,tango(if you still have some)

6.79 Legion i can do ancient farming at lvl 4 with only the mentioned items above... but 6.80 its hard

^kill the easy camp first. It will die before 1:00 so you can kill it twice for fastest level 2.

^ i might do that i love fast level 2 ... but dogs give quick lvl 2 as well

I don't think I've been in a single game where legion laned over jungle. She jungles every damn game. I usually lose when she's on my team.

Jungle does not seem decent anymore for LC. Just gotta rely on that aoe in lane I guess.

can you stop being retards and not do the easy camps?
its very low xp and gold you can do every camp except ursa and centaur very easily so if you dont have both hard camps with ursas and both medium camps with centaurs you dont do easy camps all game
despite doing nothing you actually lose your fucking safelane because you take the pulls away
well fucking played
thats actually like picking lycan and say ill go woods at lvl 3 and you just sit in the lane fight for lasthits and steal xp and then just leave the lane

@doulikebananas

You really are retarded...

0:30 start easy camp as soon as it spawns
0:5x finish easy camp and move away from block area
1:00 easy camp spawns again and you do it

Level 2 at 1:2x and almost full hp

Also pulling isn't necessary if your carry knows how to maintain fucking creepuillibrium

youre fucking dumb and have no idea about dota
pulling isnt for maintaining creep equilibrium
its to deny enemy xp/zoning out, getting xp yourself without taxing your carries xp and doing something useful while being off the map so people have to be careful

but whatever you clearly dont know how to play support or dota in general

tbh if i didnt read patch notes i wouldnt notice any difference

your support should be zoning the enemy offlane without having to pull
if youre against a trilane or dual lane, your pull camp should be blocked anyways

please teach me how to play dota
you obviously never need to pull in dota
and if i had to decide on whether i could have a jungling legion commander every game or the possibility to pull creeps id obviously choose the jungling legion commnander because hes so fucking useful

>calls LC useful
>puts him in jungle anyways

you shouldnt be jungling any hero that isnt meant to start with large creeps. that means ONLY Enchantress and Chen should be jungling at level 1. every other "jungle" hero has good lane presence and should be either offlaning or dual/tri laning.

youre actually just dumb

Jungle camp XP is shared now. You aren't going to deny them with pulling, you deny them with a support zoning them out. If a suupport doesn't zone out the offlaner during the pull, the offlaner will just stand close enough and sap xp from the pull. Pulling can be used to fix creep equilibrium, but sometimes a hard carry has to kite the creeps in a circle for 5-10 seconds to make sure it works out. EE does it often in pro games.

Not to mention legion starting with the easy camp is only done the once and not repeated. Its not like legion goes after the easy camp every chance she gets. There is really no reason for a support to need to pull the lane before 3 minutes after the changes to side pulling and jungle XP.

Also, wink is forgetting about Enigma, Axe, Furion, CM, KotL, doom for starting with hard camps potentially.

Doom can do hard or easy camps depending on the spawn and is a good jungler. If doom gets to eat the giant bird, that has extra armor and he can kill the two little birds at lvl 1, same for the centuar with the stun. Doom's lane presence at lvl 1 is pretty awful. He's not that good til he has phase boots, hellfire and his lvl death for mini stun, which is at least lvl 3-4.

can people with like 1.5k less mmr not tell me how to play support its actually quite funny
youre saying that pulling before the 3 minute mark is useless or bad?

and hes not getting xp for the creeps dying to the neutrals he only gets xp for the neutrals dying and if you cant keep him away from that how are you ever going to zone him out anyway?

im not saying that you have to pull every game that early while your carry gets fucked by their offlaner
you obviously dont pull if hes struggling and shit but there are many games where you just waste time and xp if you dont pull right away
pulling means being off the map and if the enemy walks up during that time you can just run at him and kill him or at least get him low
also you cant always zone people out anyway especially when you have a carry who doesnt do anything like a void or a spec

youre fucking suggesting that you should always go do the easy campx2 with lc which is the most retarded thing you could possibly do in the entire game
you actually make it unpullable until the 3 minute mark and make it so the supports only xp can be taken from the carry or from the jungling lc

@concede
forgot about enigma, the rest have good enough lane presence to be prefered in the lane (doom being situational)

anyways, this bananas tard is too ignorant and stubborn to learn, so just leave the thread to die...

you dont even have a point
its neither more xp nor more gold
while you take the possibility to pull from your support

hows that good
if you have no idea just shut the fuck up and dont act all smart because you have someone else who has no idea backing you up

@Bananas

I'm "fucking" suggesting in a sub 5.3k pub match, going jungle LC is pretty questionable to begin with. And frankly, I don't see what the point is of being so hostile to discussion. If you are so disinterested in having the discussion, and are already high MMR, then why are you posting?

Many of the games a jungle LC will have, is also going to have a solo safe laner and a dual top lane. A lot of games are also going to have dual safe lanes with a support that cant be trusted to pull properly and should just focus on zoning. Supports that actually stay away from a carry's XP aren't going to be that common in 4k games.

I'm not saying the premise of your argument is wrong, i'm saying it just isn't going to happen in a lot of games, especially games with jungle LC.

If the support is actually going to pull right away, they will probably tell the LC before hand, or when the LC goes for the small camp.

Otherwise, 2x easy camp is the fastest and most reliable level 2 possible for an LC.

so whats your point?
saying it's okay to do stupid shit becasue the people safe laning are bad anyways so you do something that potentially fucks them over while it's not even helping you in the slightest
and if i tell you in my game to not fucking go to the easy camp you will reply with no i have to take the easy camp I'm a legion commander and I'm stuck arguing with someone who has no idea what he's doing
and no it's not faster than doing a medium non centaur camp or doing satyr or troll hard camps

Its not stupid if the support isn't going to pull before 3 minute, or there is no support for the safe lane.

If you are so jaded that you assume players will automatically ignore a request in game, that is your problem.

It is faster and does less damage depending on the easy camp pops. Ghost camps make it slightly slower but LC will still take less damage.

I don't think I have ever seen a jungler start at the small camp since the small-med location swap. It's either warded or reserved for the safe-lane. Even farming the Radiant pull-through camp early is discouraged since it will in most cases mess up the safe-lane pulling. You can do what ever you want in pubs but it doesn't seem like the team as a whole benefits from what you are suggesting.

@ Jussi - I don't disagree with you in your MMR bracket Jussi.

ive just seen someone stacking the easy camp and then killing it on radiant after seeing that satyres spawned on radiant
it took him 20 seconds longer 2 tangoes more and fucking up the pull up until 3.00

now tell me in what skill bracket is that better

You can run LC jungle in more ways than just fucking one. You can farm the small camp and clear it before 50s, or you can cut a hole in your trees so you only fight one creep at a time in the med/hard camp. Both have similar enough efficiency that you're looking at about the same amount of farm. I prefer cutting the hole for the med camp personally because I like keep the easy camp open for the support to get some farm, but that's just me. It all depends on the comp/situation!

Also, if you're over 4k mmr why are you even jungling LC? At that level I was often harassed wayyyyyyyyyy too much for it to be effective in even more than 50% of my games, so I stopped doing it.

@bananas

You are supposed to stack the easy camp and then kill it, nor was that mentioned. What was suggested is killing the first easy camp that spawns at 0:30 seconds, finishing it before 1:00, and immediately killing the second easy camp that spawns at 1:00. That is what limits the damage taken to LC.

you cant kill every camp in that time so you stack it with like 1-2 small creeps being alive but even if you finish it youre faster with the medium camp
you finish the satyre camp right about when the 2nd easy camp spawns
now im actually done i dont get how thats so hard to understand

*brings popcorn*
i agree