I agree we should as a community of players gather and "ask Valve" to stop fooling around whats the point in this, rly somekind of hidden privacy policy ? in the end all players would like to know at what point are they in their gaming, what level do they represent, ok some can feel like meh im weak omg someone will check it and flame in in the beggining of the game but who cares ?
If you play bad they flame anyway "go uninstall, noob, russian etc" and with rating you can atleast set some goals try a bit harder stop playing like meh "i will just random i dont care what my team needs most right now". Why people are so scared of their ratings i dont get it, there is nothing more satisfying then achieving higher division :)
At least the best solution now would be if valve get rid of this shitty privacy settings and get asured by dotabuff they will add something like i dont know "hide my score" button, so the info would be gathered from all players, and some people would have an individual chance to hide or show to the world their stats so dotabuff can make their awesome job and valve can protect whatever stupid thing they want behind that hide button.
The issue is not with Valve trying to protect personal data - that's what they have to do as a company.
And they have to enable an ability to never pass any of the data to 3rd party services.
Example - the time of the match is displayed, and thus a malicious criminal can know that a certain individual was at home near his computer at a certain time period - this can be considered "personal data" even by court. A sloppy example but you get the point - if Valve passes information to 3rd parties without letting the user know they are a potential subject to lawsuits.
The issue is with the "default" setting. No user will bother to change it. Ever.
And the only thing we can influence as a community is this "default" status.
A line in "terms of agreement" may help - but I don't really remember if Dota has a different set of agreements user has to agree with. If it's not the case and Dota falls into general steam agreements - again - sending personal data is restricted by law and thus Valve can't just simply wave it away.
Noone can increase in rating without someone else decreasing in rating. That means the rating is not an appropriate measurement of player skill.
I am very pleased that Valve did this step. Although I like Dotabuff, I had to experience all the harassment the hard way, and it's not encouraging. In contrast to obviously most players I don't need anyone to tell me when I play bad, because I realize that myself. In the last weeks, players on Reddit, Dotabuff, playdota, joindota, dev.dota2.com and of course ingame flamed me and treated me unfair for my 50% win rating. I'm getting almost daily hate-PM's from people for my 1300 games played with OD. I lose a big part of my games only because people look at my dotabuff, then decide to not let me go mid or carry lane with OD, but instead to dual Hardlane with another carry. Unwinnable games.
That change was definitely necessary.
lol pm's ? seriously dude...if you cant handle haters dont play games lol its normal you have russians, kids or other flaming idiots that will never stop no matter how much your gaming info will be your private stuff, its only a game for fun if someone takes it to seriously they go pro if they dont fuck them and ignore them dont even talk to them.
Lux
That is to be expected when people are getting way too serious about winning.
Your post have actually given me some insight about how people may act outside of my usual playing circle/bracket/community.
Again, I'm not talking that all statistics should be allowed by default, but I want to keep this service alive because of the pros it gives us.
Unfortunately the only way it will work for DB is if you will be able to manage your personal data in 3 ways:
1) Full closed - no information is given via API
2) Partially closed - the information is fed to DB, the DB profile is closed from other users
3) Fully opened
Unfortunately your issue will not get away even with DB closed as a site.
People will still judge you by the limited ingame statistics they can access.
DB just gives a quicker way to summarize statistics as opposed to browsing through your latest few games in dota client to see the gpm or kda.
Tl/dr
Your problem can not be solved by completely not feeding information to DB
Im just going to copy & paste my previous post.
5. THIRD PARTY CONTENT
In regard to all Subscriptions, Software, and related content that are not authored by Valve, Valve acts merely as an intermediary service provider. Valve does not screen such third party content available on Steam or through other sources. Valve does not assume any responsibility or liability for such third party content. Some third party application Software is capable of being used by businesses for business purposes - however, you may only acquire such Software via Steam for private personal use.
6. USER GENERATED INFORMATION
"User Generated Information" means any information made available to other users through your use of multi-user features of Steam or to Valve or its affiliates through your use of the Software or otherwise. User Generated Information may include, but is not limited to, chat, forum posts, screen names, game selections, player performances, usage data, suggestions about Valve products or services, and error notifications. Subject to the Valve privacy policy referenced in Section 1 above, as applicable, and except as otherwise specifically addressed in any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use, you expressly grant Valve and its affiliates the non-exclusive, irrevocable right to use, reproduce, modify, create derivative works from, distribute, transmit, broadcast, and otherwise communicate, and publicly display and perform the User Generated Information and derivative works thereof in any form, anywhere, with or without attribution to you, and without any notice or compensation to you of any kind. For any content for which you take advantage of cloud storage provided by Valve, you grant us a license to store such information for you, and you represent and warrant to us that you have sufficient rights in such content to grant us this license. You acknowledge and agree that we may place limits on the amount of storage you may use.
From this people should know what they are getting themselves into. You all have agreed to the terms and conditions so please no complaining about 'OH GOD MY DATA LEAK OUT PEOPLE GOING TO STALK ME'.
@Frog Rapist, the example you have given is plausible but very unlikely. Knowing the time a person is online, he could be online on cybercafes, LAN or friend's home. Criminals or malicious people and etcs can't even do anything from this insignificant data. People all have 'agreed' or just accepted the agreement so Valve CAN wave the data around as they choose.
SOOOO from this i conclude that people whom are afraid to expose their stats are either embarrassed about their rankings, or they are hyper paranoid retards.
Don't be scared about being flamed ;)
田구민 double U
Thanks for your insight about USER GENERATED INFORMATION
I decline my argument about personal data and currently default to "Valve is fucking dumb" argument.
Whoa, i thought u were going to insult me for a moment haha but anyways.
Valve is a great company and the hardwork the DotaBuff staff put in is really no small amount.
I feel like valve just destroyed a whole community of passionate people.
They need to earn a living too somehow. Although the premium thing, $6 per month is a bit much i don't fault them for it.
IceEdge,
Yes, it's only a game and that's why I want my stats and archivements to stay in the game and not cause people posting death threats and other bullshit to me at Reddit or via PM in the forums/E-Mail.
Furthermore, I want to have fair chances just like everyone else, and don't want to have to create a new account every time when I make a small mistake.
Lux, if people bother u for crappy stuff like win ratio then u should report those guys: usually in dota 2 there's the rule "who say/pick first have the right to claim that", that's another crappy rule but more reasonable (kinda childish anyway arguing for "i said first OMGOMG").
What's the point in that? Fuck stats/win ratio: if u're the best midder in the team then go mid, else go on side, pub games without friends are random anyway...
If players u're playing with are not trash they should know that pubbing alone implies that ur win ratio won't depend only on yourself and that u could've sent few times with carry on hard lane (if u got an average score like 0-10-0 it's another fact :P ), so just pick what u want (appropriately with team, if there's already 2 carries u're the one who's wrong picking another one) and go for the lane most suitable for u, if ppl complains or annoy u too much just report them as "crying scum"
Well it's as always only our speculations. Unless Valve actually tells us why exactly they decided to make such a move (which I highly doubt - we will be given only the general bullshit terms that will all be rounded up to "we decided that, because we think it's better") we can't really judge.
Who would PM/ threaten and etc over forums, email or steam chat? That's ridiculous.
@Lux, you have problems if you can make people so mad they'd want to screw you over just because you made a 'mistake'. Mind you manners and just don't offend people within the game.
Nothing to worry about as your steam doesn't show your address and etc.
Why you scared?
Valve made the right decision, you choose to share your stats or not, have fun DBR fans, sorry for GENERAL Dotabuff stats and site, but DBR fucked all the hard work.
Valve listen, Valve cares.
Valve clearly doesn't care, because they've just shafted an entire aspect of the dota2 community.
valve listen, valve cares?
What shit is that?
The poll clearly shows, majority wants it.
So valve does not care for the mass but only the minority? Well, GENIUS !
Icefrog cares, Icefrog Listen -> Valve cares Valve listem GENIUS, keep cryin Stats fans, you are all crying for a missin number, if you hate Valve for this decision, go play somethin more competitive.
haha @IceEdge man troll warlord just implemented and the trolls start appearing cos their lord has appeared. Silly trolls will forever be silly trolls~ :)
and if you dont like stats go play something less competitive :)
Well dota is by nature competitive. Go play some console RPG, it ain't very competitive, just a bit forever alone~ ;)
So sad for your DBR public missing :( maybe pay 6 Dollars so you can improve your skills :(
hah funny you are indeed genius :) do something as big as they did without any cash support :) then comment on "plus" idea.
maybe instead of arguing over useless shit :P we should as a fellow players think of an idea how to improve this matter :)
There is a way to salvage this stat recording situation which could be simple, and still be appropriate for valve while making everyone happy. Generate a hash per dota2 account stored serverside and not revealed to anyone, toggle yes/no hash/steamid linking by turning on/off privacy settings. If submission is on, send stats by steamid. If off, submit by hash. Not sure what that'd do for dbr though.
^ Then they could as well just send the MMR. Probably the main reason why Valve added this Privacy Feature is because they feel attacked by the DBR which is a direct rival to their MMR and will create many hate against their MMR.
@田구민 double U,
I never flame anyone nor am i rude. People simply start hating on my for stupid reasons and my 1300 games played with OD and still 50% winrate.
If their concerns are purely about DBR, then what they've done is cracked a nut with an ICBM with huge amounts of collateral. Absolute shame.
@Lux good you do not flame we need poeple like you in the dota community :) and lol im impressed you played 1300 games and still didnt got bored ^^ and 50% rate means nothing :) some people know how to handle OD some dont somethimes i have 20 - 1 with pudge (over 200 games) but somethimes people are so aware of the hooks and place wards in pudges usuall hook places i have like 2 - 12 :) and have a bit more then 50% win rate :) shit happens :) thats why gaming is awesome its so differential, diffrent strategies or gameplay styles with the same hero but agaisnt different enemies :)
The way I see it now other than complain to Valve, is to spread the word about DBR. Get more people to open up. Real casuals will just open it up for curiosity's sake, fake casuals who are just bad will just keep their closed. I mean really. What kind of real casuals surfs around Dota 2 websites such as this, they just play the game and probably will not give a damn about getting flamed, trolled as they will just report it after match. The so called "casuals" that are crying about this "do" care about their stats.
And also, if DBR goes smoothly. Who in the hell is gonna pop-up and check his teammates/opponents every single match or look into his flaming target's stats just to bring it up to flame him. Really? Really?
@@Scared?
Valve did not make the right decision. At all. If Valve thinks that DBR is toxic, than the proper course of action would be to tell Dotabuff "Hey guys, we think DBR is toxic. Please don't do it." If Dotabuff thumbed their noses at Valve - which there is no evidence of - then shutting down their official API and preventing access to game data would be at least somewhat appropriate. Instead, however, Valve has taken a very adversarial position i.e. we won't warn you when we think you're doing something wrong, we're just going to go to the nuclear option immediately.
When somebody asks you permission for something, you don't respond, and they go ahead and do it anyways, then the proper response would be to try to communicate with them. At this point, you're still the wronged party. The wrong response is burning down their house in retaliation. At that point, you're an asshole.
Why leave a hole open for someone else to do it (if we assume DOTABUFF would have listened) only to go through the exact same time, likely multiples times, in the future?
and again the masses dont even know the true story rofl. to much fanboyism for Dotabuff or Valve and no logic applied. Dotabuff was in the wrong for trying to profit off of valves game. Dotabuff was in the wrong for creating a rating system when valve did not want one. The dotabuff developers have yet to hand over any information on what was actually discussed or confirm that there was any direct verification at all.
Also most of Eula's and Company Policies can simply be ignored. The majority don't even stand up in court.
I'm going to write this here, though I doubt most people will understand what's truly going on. Primarily because the Dotabuff admins have been deliberately misleading. This is a big website, and as everyone knows to be big you have to be first. Once you achieve that, then you can look to monetise or support your costs. The reason this site is first though is because it's been built on unsupported data scraping rather than by using an official API. This was a risk and one the web site owners don't seem to be willing to admit to, instead blaming valve for 'shutting them down'.
The reason it has happened now is likely because the site was about to charge users for access to the data. I'm not even talking about the implications about DBR, just that valve are not going to stand by while a web site takes money from people using data from their game when that site is not using an offically supported method to do so.
They nipped it in the bud now before people had parted with their money. The fact dotabuff still went ahead and accepted premium paid accounts, (knowing changes were coming) before shutting down the site a day later speaks very poorly of them indeed.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but with the new policy in place because if the majority of accounts won't provide any information the whole dotabuff will have no use and will just be closed.
Currently it's so good only because it gets all data from across all the profiles. If the profiles are closed - no data from the players can be received - statistics is inaccurate - no point in the site.
And most of the users will not bother to open the profiles, even if it's a single checkbox in options.
I am sure we can act as a community and ask Valve to help us keep this great service afloat.
Though DB staff knows a lot more then I do as they are in direct contact with Valve I think that if they throw a call for a community signed petition or something - this might work.