General Discussion

General DiscussionPlay dirty to win, or play fair to lose

Play dirty to win, or play fair to lose in General Discussion
TripleSteal-

    @soultrap
    this is not a valid argument in favor of religion, it actually disproves it - as people get older, they need to deal with the fear of death and therefore they use religion as psychological insurance.
    its not just my subjective atheist thought, its just a (relatively) well-known fact in sciences related to human behaviour

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    TripleSteal-

      ppl who type God instead of god scare me, btw

      4Skin

        This is so deep I found OP's mmr

        TripleSteal-

          #Deep

          plz do

            i play fair to win. ggwp.

            thread closed.

            B4N3

              I'm an atheist and I capitalize it God because I don't want to look like an uneducated retard.

              TripleSteal-

                god is something like a human, an alien, a dog or w/e - its a general term that can refer to a lot of personalities

                capitalizing it makes no sense unless:

                a) you dont even admit that other religion than yours exist, and ur religion is monotheist
                b) your audience shares your beliefs without exceptions
                c) you are writing a religious/philosophical text and started with the explanation of what the word "God" means, now and later
                d) its someone's personal name, altho idk how retarded one should be to name his child God (unless its not an english-speaking country)

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                TripleSteal-

                  its more uneducated to capitalize it, rather than not to do it

                  B4N3

                    It makes it more obvious that you are referring to the one same God that the three major religions on this planet believe, you're wrong that it is more uneducated to capitalize it. All major writing outlets do the same (New York Times etc.) Plus it just looks wrong, plus who the fucks cares, this shouldn't "Scare you" give me a fucking break.

                    TripleSteal-

                      they capitilize it bcz its a traditional way of writing it in western world, cz this region was very religious back in the days, and the god was one-and-only for two major religions there. also the offensive politics of church was something normal, too, and lack of respect to its god could be punished and was not socially accepted.

                      i dont think u can say that Allah is the same god as Jesus, even tho these religions are highly related; not to mention that for the atheists both of them are equal to zeus, flying spaghetti monster and ktulhu, so it makes no sense to refer to god as smthng unique.

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                      Seoulmate

                        god is love and love is real #nohomo.

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                        B4N3

                          Muslims worship the same God as Christians, they believe Jesus was a prophet, just not the son of God.

                          Totentanz to The King: M ...

                            I didn't even check the first page, how the hell did this discussion get to this point?

                            TripleSteal-

                              i thought chistians consider jesus to be one of the three "forms" of god, like he is his own son (which sounds weird, eh), but it might be just an orthodox christianity thing tho - we dont have many catholics here in russia.
                              are u pretty sure that muslims and christians believe in the same god and agree on that? it sounds rather weird to me.

                              TripleSteal-

                                also the history behind these religions are different, the myths dont coincide, and i dont see the way you can call them to be the same person (oh, well, same god), if they did very different things.

                                B4N3

                                  I am pretty sure, both the Bible and Quran focus on Abraham and they do share similar stories/myths such as the ones involving Abraham and Moses etc.

                                  TripleSteal-

                                    a question worth further investigation for me, theres an empty space in my knowledge here

                                    ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                      fairness doesn't win you games tho, thread not closed, you see most people don't give 2 shits about fairness, u are talking about fairy tales, or at least something you can't possibly achieve, not even personally against yourself. if you want to be fair, you don't improve at all, because there are millions of people who just by not playing devolve in many aspects of their dota skillz, less so to compare with you who plays, and god knows how many.

                                      Bad Intentions

                                        Good Topic. I will honestly say dat I will resort to dirty tactics and pursue my enemies with bad intentions in order to just get a win :]

                                        Riguma Borusu

                                          Well, where I play people type shit like "omg wtf smoke gank fucking tryhard you're not 5k" so I don't know what doing things to win means, other than, you know, doing what you need to win.

                                          ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                            of course, not everyone uses scripts and hacks and whathaveyou, instalock dirty op heroes, uses stat sites to counterpick, dig up fresh tips and tricks and guides everywhere all the time about x before they even start playing with x in ranked, etc etc. But everyone savors the joy of winning to certain extent which maximizes as the game gets more fun, and that fun can not just be playing in a weird unusual way to win, but also when against people playing weird ways, using traditional ways to win, giving them a sensation of "authoritative style" imposition/self hinting

                                            ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                              And we all know there's the mystery to " do I get better teammates or games/will I enjoy the game more as I progress further in mmr/experience" of course there are people that just screws around who don't even want to win as much as say your average guy with a tryhard mentality, and by the eyes of an 8k redditard the drunks definitely are subhuman pigs insulting their sacred game, and of course the account buyers and sellers always contribute to the seemingly impossible mmr class/crowd circulation

                                              in the end some people don't care and just want to enjoy the idea of self improvement, in their own terms, as they see it, independent of any judgement or end result, and some people equally don't care about improvement, only enjoying the end results--the mmr number they can brag to grills, even if they have to spam x heroes for the 1000000th time forgetting fuck all about how to last hit on all other heroes----and who's to say they can't have their fun and walk their ways?

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                                              Riguma Borusu

                                                Are you legitimately retarded? If it's a competitive fucking game you do everything that's per game rules to win. Hacks and some scripts are against the rules, but everything else is actually fair. It's that fucking simple. Pick meta heroes, counterpick, buy items that aren't dogshit, smoke up and gank, find out some "secrets" to play heroes better etc.

                                                Why are you even trying to argue for anything? You're one of the worst players on these forums. And, as it seems, one of the people who need most psychological helps of all.

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                                                Seoulmate

                                                  is this guy actually serious though

                                                  B4N3

                                                    He's not trying to argue anything, he's trying to get attention and succeeding because this shit is entertaining.

                                                    Soultrap

                                                      @TripleSteal-
                                                      It wasn't argument in favor of religion, because I'm atheist. =P
                                                      ...or probably I'm not old enough... not yet...

                                                      @冰蛙我错了求你原谅我
                                                      You scaring me. People like you, who believe in justice and fairness, are the ones who bring guns to schools in America and start killing.

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                                                      ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                        yes it is a competitive game, but not everyone playing it is competitive, can you denounce that? Human beings are competitive in nature but they are also really good at and prone to cowarding away, even when in competition, like ratting instead of fighting, not to mention in real battles people straight out abandon and mostly don't get punished, so dota world is pretty much still very childish with volvo as parental guidance as if we are all 12 year olds when we are in fact mostly teen and young adults even if we hide behind avatars and computers, it's as I said, not so much about competition, more about self validation, for most people. The competition doesn't attract them, so much as asserting themselves in an online community or better yet hopefully emergy esport real world that seems to have a hivemind that encourages competition in order to produce certain individual to entertain the crowd which naturally doesn't achive as much in comparison with the ideal of a super competitive existence which in reality doesn't exist as you can see with the void of any so much as two time ti champ, the obvious answer being that there's simply too much transparency and too few physical restraint in the competition comparing to traditional sports

                                                        In fact I bet this kind of conversation would never happen in a traditional sport forum, but even if it does to my ignorance, there would still be people like you white knighting the legitimacy of the fairness as if a traditional sport needs any more dogma comparing to say esport, and notice I used dogma because some people namely Navi fangays do believe that fountain hooks and the like enriches the game, or should I mention rat fans again just for the sake of it--I mean the truth is nobody likes to play the same shit over and over again especially less so being thrown against it, because each individual is prone to see only what's in front of them and even if they face a million games and players they themselves-their POV, their controls, have much much less diversity in comparison--and in fact if they do they will probably be shred to pieces because they cannot adapt so much--I mean how many times have you heard your teammates say " why didn't you.....how could you not......why would you do.........stop doing.......u fucking retard" most people cannot cope with any diversity thrown their ways, call it defense mechanism if you wish, but don't deny that they actually can change if they want to and indeed " to win" they must, and to throw they must not..

                                                        But then you can switch to another POV and you see that indeed they shouldn't change for the sake of whatever, just stick to their game, don't adapt, it's their fucking game, who has the right to just make a clown out of them and rip them of their liberty to not liberate themselves from their idea of self. Not everyone is progressive, and to them to be progressive is to hold dear to their tradition. Changing all the time might be the perks of the mentally unstable, but for stern folks who likes a peace of mind an ancient calling is all they care about. I am talking about some people who just wants to search for the absolute limit of just a few specific things, even if all the patches of the world is against him. Play one fucking hero for the 99999th time, play one fucking strat, one fucking set of items, listen to one fucking song, watch one fucking movie, drink one fucking brand of soda all my fucking life...etcetc cus brand fucking loyalty, cus fucking faith lmfao, even if they begin to hate themselves for being so blind--maybe they've seen it all and they see one above all else, what would the other believers of other stuff say about that? maybe they haven't seen shit and just chose randomly and never wanted or too lazy to choose again, or maybe they just don't need to, and they have some innate qualities, souls if you like, that tells them it's the right thing to do

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                                                        Riguma Borusu

                                                          B4N3, I still fail here because I kinda TL;DR majority of it though.

                                                          plz do

                                                            lalallala, im a attention wh*ore. give me attention! lalallalalalala

                                                            ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                              says the guy who uses one liner with "wh*re" and "lalala"

                                                              Livin' Real Good

                                                                Freakin Lyrill, are you serious? XD >.>

                                                                Pale Mannie

                                                                  Dirty playing = Scripting Techies, Armlet scripters, Crit/17%/Bash scripters...
                                                                  come on

                                                                  Pale Mannie

                                                                    i dont know hat i said lol

                                                                    Miku Plays

                                                                      i like to win games

                                                                      Mekarazium
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                                                                        ΙγrιΙΙνεmροs crιsτεναηιsh...

                                                                          scripting is just an extreme example of means to the same end, often times used as the final frontier for white knighting the legitimacy of the competitiveness of the game when in fact every player that has ever played anything competitive uses all kinds of means to reach their end and 99% of them are unexposed and much more sinister than blatant and easily detected implants that disregard and mess with "the system" itself. If anything, the exploitables in a set system is equal to the actual ways you can break the system especially when your simply trying to win in both cases. In fact, if you are trying to justify anything, then by that action you are also equating "skillz" to or at least consist partly of the consent of debugging the system of its imperfections which not everyone can see, instead of just the obvious things that everyone can see but due to physical or mental differences cannot possibly utilize or perform at the same level. So basically you are consenting to the idea that for computer games such as dota, it is at least not completely about common intellectual reasoning abilities and physical reflexes but also a culturally consented but collective prisoning of ideas that masks as "game knowledge" or even "knowledge" at that, which serves no more than a perk for those who pretends to " love the game" so much or feel entitled to superiority of expeirience and length of exposure to the game, or both, and indeed being equated to "depth", which can only be obtained through concrete or ambiguous but never misleading terms like "years of experience" "love for the game" "prodigious talent" so on so forth that only validates themselves through ancient history or undisputable pre-established entities or evolutions of such kind of entities. Now I am not denoucing the possibilities that a larger majority of people "back in the days" could well have played more purely just for the fun and therefore had much more creative freedom, nor the fact that a large protion of the active pros earning big money in dota 2 started out early as well, but that any shred of what any of what it was back in the days was already fading out of relevance as games like LOL were on the rise.

                                                                          When in fact such is an utter and total destructive and antiprogressive existence of "mechanism" which lowers the attraction of the game to intuitive logical fast fingered player crowd(and for the record none of those qualities require you to have any of the previous 3 misleading taglines, you just have to be a normal human being) and instead only ever adds unnecesary dogma to what could be endless possibilities in a virtual world, even if just a handful of people are involved. By whiteknighting the game you are effectively shedding light on the ugly truth of the game and the community of dota which has long circlejerked the depth of the game which is no more than utter elitist attitude towards the have nots just because you came earlier or took things or both. Such savage nature is when found no different from any kind of cheating of any system, such cases of white washing and self validation indeed belittles any scripters in existence. Indeed the conclusion might be, that without getting to know anything about the scripters of a game such as dota, it is apparent just from looking at the game as most people positively paint it, and through playing it oneself, that there is no human dignity represented, no diversity respected, and no ingenuinty and intuitive thinking to be found, at least in the core of the game, thereby lacking. At this day and age where stats site and people's exploit dictate so much of a lot of players' activities in the game themselves, to the obvious consequantial extent so much as icefrog's "work" himself with the patches, if there's any left "work" to be had, one begs to question not only of every player including especially icefrog's remaining well of creative effort after a good few years of ti money bonus and hawaii holidays, his "love for the game", his work ethics and dedication as he may have posessed in the distant past, but also the future of dota if not the whole of gaming, whether it remains some hybrid of entertainment and escape, or straight out entertainment for general masses, or anything at all worthy of respecting, because any kind of subculture that was gaming thrived on the novelty and thus the ability to provide relative pure escapism, for the attendee, against an otherwise less perfect reality, and I'm using the word novelty because how else would you credit creative efforts? There's no actual creation but headcanon and derivatives and combination pattern switches, as you are no more no less working with the same given world and elements and choosing and excercizing already very limited resources for your craft. And indeed that is why it is all the more important that you do not further limit your imagination with dogmatic inclinations

                                                                          an old man may sit at his golden castle drown at the wealth of his knowledge but he cannot ever resist the temption of if given..a physical rebirth, and since we are physical beings governed by brain, our brain rebirth, he cannot deny the enchantment that is the fountain of youth which more than anything, any knowledge in the world can and indeed in the past had lead to wherever he may be, capable of true human discoveries

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                                                                          D the Superior
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                                                                            Livin' Real Good

                                                                              Lyrill isn't weird, he's just misunderstood, and filled with hatred, he's actually very interesting, and good company.

                                                                              Pilot

                                                                                Can you please capitalize and use proper sentence structure if you're going to type a wall of text?

                                                                                Also, only thing that is "not fair" and "cheating" are scripts. There's no such thing as dirty heroes or dirty tactics (aka ratting). If your goal is to win then you do everything you can within the rules of the game to win.

                                                                                @B4Ne and Triplesteal

                                                                                Essentially B4ne is right. They are referring to the same God. The thing is that while Christianity is a monotheistic belief, the Christian God takes 3 forms/is 3-fold (which Jesus is a part of), while Muslims believe that Jesus is only a prophet.

                                                                                Riguma Borusu

                                                                                  I still find it funny that OP is basically saying:
                                                                                  It's immoral to devise smart tactics to improve chances of winning the game.

                                                                                  J2

                                                                                    "Fairness" is matching you with other people within your MMR.
                                                                                    Other than that, try outplaying your opponents in drafts, trick them, make them suffer when laning, make their jungle feels like its hell on earth, smoke em up and pinch em on their own base.
                                                                                    If that's "dirty" in your opinion, then yeah I'll play dirty to win.
                                                                                    Because that's my objective when I play DOTA.

                                                                                    What's yours, OP?

                                                                                    D the Superior
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                                                                                      Relentless

                                                                                        Since people don't know. Jesus is God, and his Son in the sense that he is God made man. That is why one of his names is Immanuel, "God with us". It's a form God takes, usually refered to in theology as a "person of the trinity". God exists in three personal manifestations. The Father (a universal omnipresent, omnipotent mind), the Spirit (an eternal inspirational presence through which God lives in people and communicates with them), and the Son (a physical form of God embodied as a specific individual man named Jesus, or Savior in Greek). God became a man because he needed to absorb the penalty for our rebellion against him. Since that penalty would destroy us and he loves us so much he would rather suffer it himself than eternally kill us. So he died as a man to pay the price for people rebelling against him. And by raising himself from the dead he also established the pathway by which everyone can be raised from the dead. In death the body that rebelled against God is destroyed and in resurrection he gives us a new perfect body. Jesus says that anyone who believes he will give this to them, who repents of their sins and accepts him as Lord will be saved. Actually living perfectly is not required because Jesus perfect life is them substituted for our imperfect life which he destroyed when he died.

                                                                                        Muslims believe in an entirely different God and an entirely different Jesus. They believe that Jesus is just a prophet, and would kill you, me or anyone for claiming Jesus is God if they could. ISIS is doing just that all the time. Watch the news. This is the reason they are trying to kill all the Christians, because it is what the Koran commands them to do to people who claim Jesus is God. They believe not in a loving self-sacrificing God, but a wrathful God who will probably destroy almost everyone, and possibly everyone forever in hell no matter what they do or believe. Even Mohammed himself said he was uncertain whether he would go to heaven or hell. Muslims think that almost everyone goes to hell, even all or nearly all the Muslims... but just maybe a few who perfectly follow all of Mohammed's commands will save themselves. That is why they are so full of hate. They believe everyone is doomed.

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                                                                                              D the Superior
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                                                                                                  D the Superior
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                                                                                                    Relentless

                                                                                                      It is possible that it might be of additional help to a few people to point out that Jews and Christians believe in the same God, although sadly the vast majority of ethic Jews to this day remain unaware that Jesus is the Jewish Messiah. The Jews of Jesus day largely rejected him, though not entirely. A few of them established the Christian church and obeyed God's Holy Spirit, and Jesus who told them to take the message to everyone in the world.

                                                                                                      As the prophet Isaiah wrote in the days of Hezekiah, King of Israel.

                                                                                                      Isaiah 49:6
                                                                                                      he says:
                                                                                                      “It is too light a thing that you should be my servant
                                                                                                      to raise up the tribes of Jacob
                                                                                                      and to bring back the preserved of Israel;
                                                                                                      I will make you as a light for the nations,
                                                                                                      that my salvation may reach to the end of the earth.”"