General DiscussionA question regarding Razor

go phase aquila pike mealstorm / deso/ sny

Nothing personal but I just cannot imagine a razor in 2.8k MMR
Thank you anyway

This is something I've struggled with as well (same bracket as you).

What I learnt is that Razor's usual item build is focused around team fights by sacrificing farming potential. Which means if you lose (or have 50-50) team fights, your late game is screwed as well. The same logic applies for Slark, interestingly. In your case, the Slark won team fights (he was 16-7), so his team fight items paid off.

Your GPM was low (anything below 500 for core is low) that game. SNY and sceptre are both very passive items. You needed more active items that secured your farm and reduced deaths in team fights (maelstorm for farming, hurricane pike for positioning). The stats from pike is also good. You could build halberd after for the slark, followed by BKB (which you built).

This is just something I've learnt recently from my own losses and watching higher MMR games- active items offer more options in team fights than passive sny, sceptre, ac type items. Hurricane pike is really good for those clutch plays in a team fight, something a passive butterfly (countered by MKB) or SNY (countered by disables) can't offer.

For example, battlefury blink diffusal manta is better on jugg than battlefury sny butterfly.

Phase, Mask of Madness into whatever u need
pike, sny, bkb, halberd, solar, hood, blademail, etc
pretty flexible items tho
u cud go drums or smth instead of MoM, but i feel like Mom is too good
razors biggest problem is farming, he cant sustain the nuke spam to farm, so MoM comes in handy here
and the ms and as synergize super well with this hero in fights, u only really cast link and maybe ulting before u MoM, then u run them down

One more thing - your MK didn't go BKB. So I doubt you woulda won that game even with the most perfect build.

And your puck went dagon like a dumbass instead of something useful like hex.

is razor offlane actually good?

the unstable current shits hilarious when people try to zone u

Thanks for the replies guys, really appreciate that!
MK was a roamer but he turned into a core smh lmao that was plain stupid(SD had no items cuz of that)
@JDF LUL wot

saying active items are objectively better than passive items is retarded and makes no sense
sometimes u want an active ability sometimes u want a passive ability, one isnt always better than another
LEMME BUY SHIVAS INSTEAD OF AC ON PA, I WANT ACTIVE ABILITIES LULULULULUL

lets buy nullifier instead of ac on pa, because its a better item in almost all circumstances

(on pa)

@washed up I'd argue that mael is better than mom on Razor for farming. mael can be used for farming and dealing dps later when upgraded. Mom is just a farming tool (I wouldn't dare pop it in a team fight. razor is squishy as is, I don't want -7 armor and getting pooped on).

^wtf u mean u wudnt dare?
ur lvl 8, the enemy mid is lvl 6 cuz u fucked his ass, u can kill their supports in 4 hits, and maelstrom doesnt even compare in terms of farming ability
u deal so much dmg, and ur not that squishy, just kill them before they kill u

I'd say maybe that'll work in 2k games, but I'm ashamed at not coming up with something more original.

RAZOR'S VERY GOOD THIS PATCH!
Phase Drums SnY Aghs are core items
You can insert Hood/Pipe, BKB, Shiva in between depending on the situation

Razor can use Plasma and the new Unstable Current to farm faster, no need for MoM, you're a close combat hero so -7 armor is gonna kill you, while Maelstrom's gold could be used to get Drums for more pressure early game.
You'll need to participate in fights a lot instead of farming.
It's something like CK except CK can go late game.

so what if ur a close combat hero?
thats like saying MoM pa/troll is bad cuz he/she is a close combat hero?
these arguments are straight stupid
u cant really use plasma field to farm or u will have huge mana problems, u already need to ferry clarities and shit
u dont need to tank up till later on, in the mid to early game u are already pretty bulky and u deal so much dmg relative to everyone that u can just massacre them before they hit u
its only bad against chain stun, but then dont activate MoM before hand
why wud u not get MoM

two reasons:
razor is not a farming hero
mom doesnt help you get tanky in any way.
buying mom on razor is like buying mom on lifestealer. nobody does it because it doesnt fit your gameplan even though it looks and sounds good on paper.

to best carry lategame you need mjollnir skadi bkb ac and butterfly i think. you also might skip boots and get an extra item.

ur not buy mom cuz its only a farming item, razor fights with it too
it gives u options imo, if theyre hard to kill/there r breaks in between fights u can take a jungle camp or 3 without completely running out of mana
it helps with pushing
and roshing
both parts of the active synergize with razor
ur not keeping it the whole game, and most other items u build are tank oriented, but i dont see why u wudnt want to abuse ur early lead due to your strong laning with a mom

its not good in fights. its only good if they are not fighting back at all and you are just chasing them down. it makes you more prone to burst damage which is what you normally get fucked by. you only use mana for plasma field pretty much so if you are running out of mana constantly you are just not playing well. you can also use the ult to farm.

Aquila and Drum's mana regen is quite good and ferrying clarities isn't as costly as buying an MoM for farm.
I don't feel like Razor is as powerful as you imagine, he needs some time to actually start doing hefty amount of damage to enemies.
(Both Static Link and Eye of the Storm will need like 5 seconds or more to actually enter the stage of massacre)

So you don't want to Berserk when you're sucking damage because target can turn on you and fuck you up if with just two seconds of disable. Then you're just this Razor with no movespeed boost to chase and suck. Drums gives ms and atk speed boost and some nice bonuses with no consequences. And it's an aura item. It's a perfect item for a fighter hero like Razor.

MOST IMPORTANTLY, Razor's basic DPS isn't as high as Troll, Sniper or Luna, so having an MoM on him is like having MoM on the current Viper. It doesn't boost that much of your farm, you can't even do ancient camp with it.

SNY BKB is what I get on him every game, I also use his passive to last hit in the early stages of the game.

7/9 the past 2 weeks with him. depending on the lineup you could go aghs and get his ult talent, grab the rf shard and double ult and destroy a set of rax

woulda been 8/9 but my ck in my last loss decided to tower dive and we lost a base race lmfao, epic 40k gold lead throw by him

Then you're just this Razor with no movespeed boost to chase and suck.

Active: Berserk
Gives 110 attack speed and 17% movement speed, but reduces your armor by 7 and silences you. Lasts 8.0 seconds.

^

So you don't want to Berserk when you're sucking damage because target can turn on you and fuck you up if with just two seconds of disable.

Rush midas mjolnir and only fight after 20k networth lead

No one can 0-100 u fast enough besides shit like Lina, but even Lina is a low armor weakling so u can blow her up too

I think sny is a needed item by razor as your first, kinda like AM's bfury. It gives u ms, and some hp to fight at the early stages of the game. And with a SNY with razor maxed passive theres only a handful that can run away from you. From there its whatever suits the game. Most of the time you NEED a bkb to stay alive long enough to be relevant in team fights.

Aghs refresher and the -0.1 second eye of the storm talent.

washed up is 2k troll, y wud u even argue

Hi
185 games on razor. I feel he is nerfed this patch with the new passive. He is easily nuked to oblivion now if focused.
I would recommend thinking of ways to make him tanky for him this patch especially in pub play where support or bailout is not expected to be forthcoming.

Regards
Gecko

razor is a situationally picked carry that usually builds some movement speed and tanks up. he gets all the dmg he needs by his W and ult, play around that.
aghs makes his ult an amazing pushing tool
you want to draft him with physical dps mids and a reasonable amount of aoe disable from what i know

gecko you are dogshit

regards

Is there any scenario which Razor is advised to not going with SnY as first big item?
Like seriously.

I don't really like Razor, to play, or to play against... But the last game I had with him (previous patch) I had the same issue as OP. I dominated early game, but in the late game against certain heroes you kinda fall off and become less useful. We won the game, but after a loooong ass struggle to push against an Aghs-Rapier Sniper...In my opinion the build I took is quite decent for late game.

https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/2880016144

I am 2k but not a troll
So 50% right

washed up is 2k troll, y wud u even argue

@shinigami razor was not the pick that game, thats most of the problem. And I found deso is not needed when you have a ult that takes away armor and your attack damage steal. Theres better first items out there

Razor a hero that falls pretty hard.

But HPike is really a core for positioning and mobility, you can get it first after phase, aquila or after making yasha.

You guys don't like aghs build with tank items? Take the ult talent just run around zapping everyone? Like s&y, aghs, shivas, ac, heart, no one will be able to kill you.

u dont need aghs or the talent to need tank items, he relies more on link than his ulti honestly
that being said aghs is decent for pushing but not rlly for fighting

I think he generally perform best as an anti carry with drums, crest, shiva, sny, hood, bkb, aghs and alike

Just build him to be able to Frontline and interfere with the opponent carry

are u kidding, razor with agha refresher bkb is like a walking fountain with minus armor with his lvl 20 talent, and someone said it is not decent for fighting... still have lower power for pushing though than a hitter razor...
whats more if he got refresher shard, insta all rax and u still have ult active for a period of time

bro I am the mid razor king of the north bros

little tip for ya, razor doesnt need a pike. He wants to be close to deal the most damage. If you argue otherwise then razor wasnt the pick to begin with