both, It is important because it represents a players skill, but it is also just a number. Just stop taking it all so seriously and enjoy the game.
If it was just a number, a mere 500 mmr difference wouldn't show such a consistent superiority.
I mean it's simple. Nobody doubts that a chess grandmaster is really good at chess, but when it comes to dota, trash players will say 7K mmr just means you play a lot and abuse OP heroes or whatever excuse they churn out of their ass.
Truth is, it probably takes lots of talent and skill to achieve such a high MMR, as well as literal years of playtime. It's a craft that people perfect just like any other. A 6 - 9k player is 1 out of 3,000 6k+ players in the world. Not just anyone can be THAT good. There's about 2500 6k players around the world.
but isnt the difference between 6k and 9k not that great? possibly even lesser than between a 3.5k and a 5k? i mean, they get matched in same games all the time and participate in the same battlecup tier so...
generally, it represents your skill. considering that dota is a competitive game, in the first place, people here do care about skill and improvement, and as a result mmr is considered important.
there s a lot of difference between 6 and 8k. they are in the same battlecup tier due to low playerbase.
sure theres a lot of difference. but i feel like its lower than it is in lower mmr if you apply the same proportions. like let's say difference between 3.7k and a 5k would be far greater than 6k and 8k.
huge huge huge difference between 6k and 9k
think: 9k may get matched with high 3k or low 4k against all 5ks, aka 100% cancer
or 9k 4k 5k 5k 5k versus
6k 6k 6k 5k 5k
u have to be so good to win with valve trying to actively match u with lower skilled players who will probably lose lane and feed
Maybe you just can't see the difference but I disagree.
RTZ smurfs in 6.5k average games and stomps mid like I would stomp a 2k.. watch all the pro's smurfs on their 6k - 7k accounts even though they're just high 7k and 8k.
They get matched in the same games, sure, but that's because there's not enough players of that skill level so there's no other choice. T9 battle cup would literally be impossible to queue if it didn't include 6k - 10k players. Regardless, ask any 6k team who have went vs 7k+ stacks.. it's always hard to win if they win at all.
Secondly, I get matched with 5k/high 5ks almost every game as a 4.6k, doesn't mean I'm as good as a 5k. I can barely last hit in lane vs a 5k. You should see my lion game yesterday, the 6k enemy storm outplayed us the same way I would outplay 2ks honestly, storm was 6.3k and my OD was 5.7k.
I believe you're seeing like 4 6k's, 1 8k vs 4 6k's, 1 8k and you don't see much of a difference, BUT if one team had just 6ks vs an 8k you would clearly notice how the team with the 8k cleanly stomps.
Yes JDF8 you're right, I saw a match once where Moo (mid 7k to low 8k player) had mainly 5ks on his team, no 6ks, and he was vs a couple of 6ks, high 5ks, etc. most importantly, BSJ was vs Moo.
Moo was solo offlane as timbersaw, BSJ was jugg mid. Moo was laning vs a 6k ursa, and a mid 5k rubick (I've played with rubick before, he has 7500 matches lol) + earthshaker. Moo dumpstered his lane and totally dominated the game, he made the 5 and 6ks look like nothing. You can see it here https://www.opendota.com/matches/2471254865
The higher your MMR, the more heavier your games are.
mmr is your ability to win the game with 4 random strangers against 5 random strangers where the mmr number itself dictates the difficulty.
so some could say, mmr is your skill since the difficulty rises with the number
you say you can barely lasthit as a 4.6k against a 5k... now change the 4.6k to 3.3k and imagine what happens.
difference between 3.3k and 5k is proportionally the same as 6k and 9k.
you are really saying that 9k is better than 6k by more than 5k is better than 3k?
once again, im not saying there is a low difference between 6k and 9k, but i only say that proportionally the difference is lower than in the lower brackets.
and then you have to say that timber is pretty much Moo's main hero and he is a world class pro player not just ordinary high mmr. not to mention that ursa/rubick are not exactly timber counters....
1. BSJ lol
2. DendiFace MAJOR IS JUST A NUMBER DendiFace
3. I played 2 games with matumbaman smurf in 5k average and we both tried really hard and still lost, i don't think a 5k should lose at all in 3k average maybe im wrong cause 5ks are actualyl so fuckign bad
i get dumpstered in 4k games boosting 4ks and thats like 1400 mmr diff
dont think i could lose in a 3k game though, maybe 1/100-1/50
mmr is awesome.
Think of school, and people in like 1k be the F students and being called fucking morons, since that is kind of what they are when it comes to Dota.
Then 2k are the D students.
3k C
4k B
5k+ A students.
it's all competition, and this game will always be alive since humans are naturally competitive.
Actually yes sielos I am. I'm a 4.6 - 5.0K player and in 3K I'd probably win like what 75 - 80% of the time. Maybe a bit lower. In the games I lose I'd still play well but it'd be too heavy for me since I'm not THAT damn good. But yes, a 9K will dumpster a 6K in lane, I feel pretty confident in saying that.
Ursa does counter timber pretty hard and to have 2 supports in your lane as ursa, timber would NORMALLY GET DUMPSTERED. But you know what? When you're more skilled than your opponents you can deal with what would normally be a tough lane.
It's not at all easy to play this well vs mid 5ks 6ks and a 7k, when you have a 4k, and some 5ks. It takes a ton of skill, imo you're under-appreciative of how good it really is because you haven't been put into that kinda situation before. And you gotta do this stuff consistently. Takes some real next level 1v9 skill.
Anyways, watch pro's stream who are 7k+. They win more often than not with their 6k+ smurfs, this isn't really something that's debatable.. obviously they're not going to win like 90% of their games, but I'd say 65% or so is reasonable and still shows they're the superior player and would win more often in a real game.
Here is waga's 7.1k smurf. Waga is only 8k but he has a pretty consistently high winrate https://www.dotabuff.com/players/123048453
So he doesn't even try that hard but 64%, imagine if he was tryharding.
Also, to refute your point that Moo is a pro so it somehow makes him a God, which is wrong, keep in mind Waga is not a pro.
The number means a lot. Still as with everything, there's still some miscalculations in the system, there will always be some cases it doesn't work as proper representation of the skill.
Ok a 9k will dumpster a 6k in lane, much more often than not. The mechanics are pretty close but the 9ks is probably still superior..
im not saying a 9k isn't superior to 6k lul
im just saying that the difference in such high mmr is way lesser than it would be as if you applied the same proportions to lower mmr.
as you said yourself, 9k will win 70% matches in 6k, 5k will win 95% matches in 3k.
5k will win 95% matches in 3k.
with heroes like slark maybe
you could say I'm 5.0 and I won't win 95%.
cookie won 97% in 3k but he's 6k
Yeah, that's actually his smurf. His smurf is 5k, what a player. Meanwhile my last game I smurfed in 2k the other day I lost
But you're not 5k jefe, don't act like you are either if the point of this thread is to highlight that even 400 points can be a big difference.
But I used to be 5.0 for a brief period, so I am around there for sure. Also my slark is rated as 5.6k on opendota (and I play well on my friend's 5.5k account with slark), so I could probably get 5K if I played him more tbh.
How do you see the mmr per hero on opendota? I'm not sure I trust it though, it says I'm like 600th global best witch doctor but only 12,000th best Luna. On dotabuff I'm top 25 Luna.
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What people thinks about mmr ? is it very importand in every player mind or it just a number ;) ?? give your opinian and reason about it ..