General Discussion

General DiscussionHow to counter spectre late game?

How to counter spectre late game? in General Discussion
Centuries

    Say spectre is fat (I know my bad), has heart+manta+radiance. How to counter her late game in teamfight?

    We can silver edge her but she uses her ult if she is silver edged and it takes few seconds to point where real one is and by that time all of teammates have half health and are running T_T

    We can sunder her if we have TB but let's not go to that point because obvious TB will be stunned a lot in good ranking match when he is low on health.

    Any other way/hero that counters her in the most perfect way late game? Void used to kill her but void is shit nowadays :(

    ooooooooooo
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      Rocket

        bkbs i guess. or just let them finish and move onto the next game...

        Centuries

          ^ wouldn'e have posted this Qn if "let them finish and move onto the next game" was an option.

          @Kitrak: Thanks, Well silencer is not and LC might get killed if she tries to solo kill her(again situational i know ) BUT YES Doom is a preety good counter. Especially Doom with an Aga. Spec can't do shit against him.

          Any more viable counter hero/items? Can't pick Doom all the time against spec :)

          Manny Pacquiao

            satanic

            Riguma Borusu

              Silveredge LC with heart and blademail works really nice :x

              Rocket

                Problem with lategame spec is she should really have buyback haunt ready so you'd best have a refresher on Doom. Aghs necro is helpful in giving you a bit of breathing space

                Immaterial

                  Best counter to spectre is to not let her get fat.

                  Her laning stage is HORRIBLE. She is literally probably the worst laning hero in dota.

                  Best counter to when she is fat? Get BKBs so she doesn't reflect damage. Have your whole team focus her. Build lock down items that go thru BKB like MKB , Abysal blade.

                  Shutting her down / out farming her is key.. if enemy picks spectre, try to pick a high impact hero to out farm her / out play her / shut her down.

                  If enemy team picks spectre you need to pick heroes who ABSOLUTELY DDESTROY EARLY GAME, or you have to have a combo of early game + late game so you have a chance to win if she gets farmed some how..

                  For example...

                  If you have a spirit breaker and a tusk constantly ganking spectre, HE CAN'T DO SHIT WHATS SO EVER BUT DIE.

                  But then you need a competent team who will actually end when you get kills.. Night stalker can also shut down spectre hard... Esp with a shadow blade to walk through wards while spectre is solo farming. night stalker + spirit breaker = GG spectre..

                  Obviously there are tons of exceptions.. But that is how you beat spectre.. She is absolute shit in lane for a reason.. cause if you let her farm.. It's GG.

                  Specte can be locked down / bursted down / out farmed / shut down

                  but if game gets too late n she is 6 slotted good luck to your ass lol.

                  Remember Spectre has the second highest win rate on dota.

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                  Centuries

                    ^ Yes 2nd viable solution. Aghs necro but that is still less viable than Doom ult because necro can be targeted by spec late game if she dies of necro once or twice. Also necro doesn't have much presence against spectre if he is being targeted.

                    1- Doom Ult
                    2 - Necro ult but not viable if he is targeted by her
                    3 - Silver edge LC ult with blademail (need to try this)

                    Rocket

                      Don't forget Dusa. Instantly kill those illusions so at least you are fighting 5v5.

                      dunce

                        Okay, i just played 2 games of spectre. In first game i had good lane, had kind of free farm and look my score. We definetely won. Second game i was vs ds and ogre magi in lane. I couldnt do a SHIT and we lost coz i was underfarmed and bla bla bla...
                        My point is wreck spectre in lane and gank her a lot and gg. In 2nd game we had very farmed invo but yeah, underfarmed spectre cant help a farmed invoker win late game

                        Centuries

                          @Freethought AND @1NX: I wrote "My bad that spectre is fat" :) I know how to stop her in early/mid game. This topic ain't to get suggestions about her early/mid game. Sorry if it came in as rude but it's about her late game. Thanks for the suggestions anyways.

                          @Rocket: Yes Dusa ult :D That places Dusa as 2nd best solutions because it still can't stop her passive like doom's ult can.

                          1- Doom Ult
                          2- Dusa Ult :)
                          3 - Necro ult but not viable if he is targeted by her
                          4 - Silver edge LC ult with blademail (need to try this)

                          Miku Plays

                            u dont need silveredge as LC to kill spec, just sb/blink and baldemail. Most spec max desolate anyway

                            Trodlabundin

                              try to catch Spectre outside creeprange so you will get desolated with blademail though. If you aint farmed on Legion and Spectre is, Spectre will just kill you though so be aware.

                              If you're ahead AA can be good cause it's much easier to kill high hp heroes.
                              Slark is good vs Spectre assuming you're ahead.
                              Centaur can be good with aghs, negating spectre ult damage, potentionally killing the illusions.
                              Fat Gyro can kill all illusions in a teamfight in 3 hits.
                              Doom can solokill Spectre
                              Offensive dual lane to stop it from farming is also decent

                              jo~

                                solo pick off heroes
                                necrophos is a fucking boss too, in any core position
                                you can also run him solo safe and have a agr tri, then go mek greeves deathball
                                aoe heals destroy spectre in general

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                                TripleSteal-

                                  if you dont fall too far behind, medusa is pretty much ok

                                  BlackXargon

                                    As a Spectre player, these are my fears in late game:
                                    1. considering equal farm: Anti-Mage, Juggernaut, Necrophos, Faceless Void, Legion Commander, Viper, Leshrac (6.84)
                                    2. solo pick-off potential heroes which doesn't allow me to 4-1: Clinkz, Storm Spirit, Slark, Faceless Void, Juggernaut
                                    3. and a little bit of heroes who can make my tankiness useless: Apparition, Undying

                                    Relentless

                                      Ember Spirit => bfury + crits

                                      If you get enough dmg on ember and your team stays together, one slight of fist will kill all the illusions.

                                      Against anything else, a good Spectre could simply ult first and you have already lost the fight. Only Ember can still win if Spectre gets the ult cast before you disable him. Only ember can kill the illusions again easily if Spectre buys back or uses a refresher. Just stay close so Ember's first slight of fist can hit all 5 illusions. Ember can wipe out a Haunt every 6 seconds.

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                                      Manny Pacquiao

                                        @Solace. My items bro i jst sent steam offer. ty

                                        Riguma Borusu

                                          "u dont need silveredge as LC to kill spec, just sb/blink and baldemail. Most spec max desolate anyway"

                                          Considering lategame scenario, spectre is going to have way more hp than you do (unless you get a heart, obviously), and you really do not want dispersion in 1v1, it will eat you up. You want it off. Desolate is okay, not a huge problem honestly, you will lifesteal way more than it damages you, but you need to deal with that dispersion. Because a solo legion will hardly kill spectre with blademail alone, you need a tank item like armlet or heart, an attack speed item like moon shard or AC and to farm up at least something like 150 damage from duels. It's lategame, remember.

                                          With legion it literally boils down to making sure that you are getting hit by one guy, while there are two guys hitting on your enemy (him, through blademail, and you, directly), so dispersion is a huge problem since it makes a great disparity between you and spec's hp. You will likely not die from dispersion since you also lifesteal a lot, but then again, spectre is not gonna die in 5 seconds either. Remember radience also makes you miss. 17% miss from radiance, 22% damage reduced/reflected from dispersion, a hefty bit of armor from all the agi spectre's stacked up, and a huge chunk of hp from skadi and/or HoT all make it hard for you to kill spectre. Blademail obviously helps a lot, but you will (in most cases) actually hit harder than her since she's not a 1v1 manfight hero, so blademail amounts to less than 50% dps towards her in duel most of the time, so you need to be pretty cautious and see what items she has before you decide to go duel her, the hero's not tricky at all, you just need to know your limits when dueling and when you can be sure you're gonna kill the target in 5 seconds. Alternatively, you could get a bkb if you are afraid of dying, but in a 1v1 situation silver edge is always going to be better if your target has an annoying passive. In case of heroes who hit harder than you but you are way tankier, going blink+blademail+occasional armlet is enough. I just laugh every time I get PA to crit herself to death as legion. She keeps bashing me, and I can't deal a lot of damage myself, I also miss her cause I don't have a MKB, but then she crits twice for half her HP and she's like, really dead.

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                                          Lleaff

                                            Shadow Demon with aghs late game works. Ult breaks her passives for 5 seconds, and you have three charges. If you can get Soul Catcher on her as well then everyone's damage will do 50% more.

                                            Metallicize

                                              the thing is spec ulti>shadow demon is inside fountain

                                              6
                                              6

                                                Naix rapes Spectre 1v1.

                                                lm ao

                                                  So does the fountain.

                                                  Riguma Borusu

                                                    ^that he does. But she can still escape him.

                                                    ooooooooooo
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                                                      Riguma Borusu

                                                        And we are also speaking about lategame here, it gets even worse, with everybody getting euls/ghost/forcestaff if he's a problem, if it is not a 1v1 situation.

                                                        But if it is.... Spectre can literally haunt/reality to get away from heroes that try to 1v1 her (and kill a poor support in the process, most often) unless they have hard lockdown that lasts long enough to kill her. Lifestealer can get an abyssal, and then he needs to hope that he'll kill her in 2 seconds. That's really not too reasonable. Well, maybe a hex too? Or an Orchid? Oh but she has manta, your orchid is worth shit. And hex is... an interesting pickup on ls. What about that butterfly, how about an mkb? Oh fuck. Oh god forbid spectre has skadi, now you are attacking slow as shit if she hits you once. The problem with manfighting spectre 1v1 is not that you will die (sometimes you will), it's that she won't freaking die. Not fast enough, not with an average stun, you need some serious lockdown for a carry that's both very mobile and very tanky (compare this to medusa who is not that mobile but is very tanky, and ember/storm spirit who are pretty fragile if caught, but are otherwise mobile).

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                                                        Dire Wolf

                                                          -Don't let it get to late game, spec is so weak early, fight early, crush her lane.

                                                          -Have equal late game fighters like gyro or ember. I'd say medusa works here too except she'll get diffusal and mana burn the shit out of you, but if you get bkb you'll be alright.

                                                          -Omni knight. His ult stops her ult in it's tracks. Radiance will still burn you of course, but dispersion physical won't hurt, nor will desolate.

                                                          -Bkbs used to work but with dispersion change that still goes through, but it'll stop radiance burn and desolate.

                                                          -Blade mails do work, her ult still hurts a lot of course, but spectres rarely build bkb and hate doing so, so at least you stop the real one from fighting.

                                                          Riguma Borusu

                                                            Dispersion does not go through BKB I think, even if it should return physical damage, because BKB blocks spells, and dispersion is one.

                                                            matrice

                                                              pick tc, laugh in the face of the new spectre, which will return much much less damage to you than it used to be :p

                                                              And plz, stop with that shit of dispersion going through bkb, it doesn't

                                                              WonderWaiter

                                                                Shes kinda the same in lategame new dispersion allows you to build AC lets say but thats all, spectre is better early game and thats the semi broken think about the hero right now (she doesnt deserve to be good early game).
                                                                Dispersion is an amazing skill lategame but spec isnt a strong hard carry because of this... she can attack the entire enemy team, initiate on the hero she wants when she wants and stay far away from being picked off in a base push / base defense, shes one of the best aegis carrier and she can abuse of the buyback mechanic.
                                                                You can pickoff her with smoke ganks and strong initiators like LC. In ultralate spec 6 slotted with RO in stash can just wait in fountain some shit happen or just push with manta radiance illusions, in that moment you are fucked but before you can always win against this hero

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                                                                twitch.tv/torukmakto30

                                                                  No one is showing any love for techies anymore whats up what that , any late game carry can be destroyed in one second no matter how tanky he is .Remote mines with aghs upgrade can blow up anything inclunding high hp heroes with magic resistance like antimage ,dusa etc .

                                                                  Riguma Borusu

                                                                    Yeah, you know what, just pick earth spirit and techies. Stack up mines in some obscure place, and then use your earth spirit to displace the fucker to wherever the mines are.

                                                                    Last picking is 4 pussies

                                                                      I'd say that Lc option is best granted if spectre got that fat in first place your team picks and execution early had to of been poor. I mean you have doom or lc should have been all over that ahole early.

                                                                      Rocket

                                                                        @wonder it is definitely the desolate change that is making spectre too strong. she shouldn't be able to jungle so easily.

                                                                        WonderWaiter

                                                                          @rocket yeah i think they need to revert that change or make desolate deals half damage to non hero units

                                                                          Filthy

                                                                            Not enough mention of slark , slark shits all over spectre .

                                                                            WonderWaiter

                                                                              ^ yeah its true and is the same with naix but thats not the problem, she can avoid slark/naix and kill other heroes

                                                                              Rebel

                                                                                Best counter to Spectre late game = Finish early game. No, seriously, if you let Spectre get fat, you're doing it wrong.

                                                                                Spectre like most hard carries is atrocious at the laning stage; she can do fairly well because of dispersion (damage reduction yay!) and desolate (pure damage yay!), but without any core items, she's just so slow; spectral dagger is too mana intensive to spam, and unless it's a guaranteed kill, she's saving it to juke in the treeline in case things go bad for her. Desolate hits hard, but without a yasha or a good stun, she won't be able to keep up despite the slow piercing spell immunity of Dagger. Dispersion at the early stage is better for defensive options than offensive, but she has a small HP pool early, so it's not as effective.

                                                                                TBH, with the changes to Spectre in 6.85, I feel like Spectre is going to be one of the FOTM heros of this patch; armor and magic reduction is viable on her now. Vlads and Assault Cuirass do wonders against heavy right-click line ups, and a Pipe on Spectre is by no means idiotic against a heavy magic nuke line-up.

                                                                                As for hero counters, I guess early pushers and heroes with hard disables (Legion Commander, Doom, Ogre Magi gets a special mention because FUCKING 8 BASE ARMOR, SLOW, AND STUN). Good timing on your part is also key when in teamfights; she WILL ult, and you better keep a sharp eye on which is the real one so you can stunlock her.

                                                                                I'm by no means excellent at Dota, but Spectre is my most played hero with a 65 % winrate on her, and these things I just picked up from analyzing lost matches.

                                                                                TL;DR: You either crush Spectre and win the game at 20-30 minutes, or lose the game (and your soul) to her in 50+ minutes.

                                                                                Guts

                                                                                  You counter her by ratting. You need a satanic to fight her 1v1, in a team fight almost impossible to counter her if she is farmed and has good supports.

                                                                                  Mekarazium
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                                                                                    jo~

                                                                                      wellu need to disable her completely since she has mantaand possibly diffusal to dispel

                                                                                      Cursed

                                                                                        pick Shadow Demon get aghanim, disruption, purge and soul catcher him.
                                                                                        he is creep with huge hp and damage by now.

                                                                                        Mugiwaraaaaaaa!

                                                                                          fucking gank her early game

                                                                                          Odinn21

                                                                                            Pick an equally hard carry (such as Gorgon, PL, Tiny, AM, CK, TB) and farm equally well. (So that's not going to happen easily :P)

                                                                                            Best choices are, a good Silver Edger bearer (LC is the best option. Can go with Mjollnir Naix to eliminate Manta illusions) and Hex. (1 from Shaman or Lion, and as many as possible from the item)

                                                                                            Frency

                                                                                              I might propose Necrophos with Aghanim's Scepter, Dagon level five and (if required) Ethereal Blade.

                                                                                              Personal opinion, of course.

                                                                                              5555555555

                                                                                                1.) Hard Carry Slardar
                                                                                                2.) Lifestealer
                                                                                                3.) Early game meepo
                                                                                                4.) Very good team
                                                                                                5.) Hard Carry Void

                                                                                                Odinn21

                                                                                                  You'll need Dagon5 - Ethereal - Refresher - Scepter no matter what to do that. And last slot should be a huge intelligence boost item to highten Ethereal damage, such as Sheepstick, Octarine Core or Shiva's. Without Refresher, only half of Spectre's HP getting drained (considering she has Heart).

                                                                                                  Relentless

                                                                                                    Yesterday I tested the Ember vs Spectre late game in a 10 v 10 and found that all 10 Spectre illlusions with heart, bfly, manta, diffusal, radience, treads were instantly destroyed by a single Slight of Fist, Ember had 2 bfuries, Deadlus and Divine Rapier.

                                                                                                    After that I got refresher orb, and timed Haunt to cast it just after he used Slight of Fist and so i still wiped his team anyway. But if Ember was holding Slight of Fist to respond to Haunt it can be a complete counter.

                                                                                                    All other remedies require that you find Spectre and attack first and there is no reason to expect the Spectre will be conviently in a gankable position unless he is a moron. Spectre could be in his base and kill your team late game. Only Ember can deal with it after Haunt is already cast on low cd. Gryo and Medusa can clear one Haunt... I guess you could get refresher to counter the refreshed Haunt.

                                                                                                    Remmeber the problem is not how to kill Spectre, the problem is Spectre can kill 3 and maybe 4 of your team late game (double Haunt) without even doing a Reality check and remaining completely beyond the range of any hero to do anything to her directly.

                                                                                                    In 10 v 10 people pair double Haunt with aghs refesher Zues and kill your whole team from their own fountain. Add AA Ice Blast and they can kill all 10 heroes even hiding in their fountain from anywhere on the map.

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                                                                                                    NNNNNNNN

                                                                                                      Early game Bounty Hunter is an easy counter against Spec, I tried this earlier. I was BH roaming support, and roamed him a couple of times with a PL carry. I left spec 1-7 or something, but we were still fucked at late game. LMFAO.

                                                                                                      5555555555

                                                                                                        The only late game heroes that can solo Spectre even with fat items are Slardar, Void, PA, Troll Warlord, Shadow Fiend, Windranger(would have to shackleshot-to-tree Spectre first), Ursa, Lifestealer, Terrorblade provided they have their own fat items. Fat Slardar with Cuirass, Heart and at least one damage item(Daedalus or MKB) can easily 1v1 Spectre. Terrorblade is already considered best 1v1 anti-hard carry not even Spectre can handle.