hes one of the stronger carries atm
if you dont know how to play fury am go try vlads manta its decent
^ it's not about the BF AM i'm worried about, it's the fact that he needs a trilane to get good farm in most cases, whereas the enemy team can usually fuck your lane up with just an agressive dual lane :|
^ gyro and even bloodseeker, how much farm do those guys need to be effective before going with their team and just pushing as 5?
He's your most played hero and you don't even have any idea how he works.
he doesn't need a buff, he might even need a nerf. AM is constantly wrecking me now, if you don't pick like 3-4 stuns you are toast, he will just out live you and man fight you to death later. I need to get plus or something to see my win rate against am but I'll bet it's not good.
@Sam: Dude I know how he works that's why I'm a bit frustrated that even in this meta where it's all about INT heroes he can still be shut down quite hard. Problem is he's the kind of hero that can farm really fast if given the chance but this is so damn boring right now, it would be nice if he was changed somehow to have other viable builds, things that enable him to fight earlier instead of the old "get battlefury, TP to a fight if you think you can snag a kill or two, otherwise just keep split pushing until you get some more farm and drag the game on until you know you are more farmed than them and can manfight and pray to god you team can hold out"
Anti mage laning stage is meh (first few waves atleast), but I don't think he needs a dedicated trilane to himself.
His LH animation is quite clean, and with a qb, his dmg is 79 at lvl 2, good enough to get a good chunk of lh.
One support (preferably ranged) does a lot to help the harass.
If your lane is dual melee then depends on what enemy had and how aggresive they are on you.
If my lanes complete shit I try to get RoH and then choke point jungle and rotate into creep wave when enemy team is not there.
^^ Well, that's the best way to play AM from the looks of it, his kit is just so good to flashfarm, why would you want to fight early if, given a little time he can just come out with 1-2 item lead over their carry
Yeah and only way to play Techies is to plant mines everywhere, is he a bad hero now? That's how the hero is designed, it's not the only way, but the most effective way. Because if you know you need to fight early game, you shouldn't have picked AM in the first place.
Actually am is pretty weak. He is only doing decent to good cause the meta is about magic nuke + 0 control, which is like the perfect environnment for him.
Not to mention that all carry that could be good against him are pretty bad in this meta.
If you wanna fight early with team, there's older builds for that. Stuff like vanguard sny comes to mind, but it's just not as viable/feasible for him, and doesn't seem to utilize his best strengths correctly
@matrice: thank you for the approval. The only reason people think he is good atm is because a lot of INT heroes (as i stated in the previous comment) but if you look at the last 3 patches, nobody even wanted to touch him unless it was just some crazy strat. If Lesh/Lina/Storm get nerfed nobody will want to pick him again because of the better alternatives.
Well, that's DotA, look at 6.83 when troll and sniper were just steamrolling past everywhere, 1 patch later , sniper and troll (IIRC) weren't even picked in any of TI main event.
Wait for 6.85, maybe AM will fall out of the limelight, although why you'd like this I don't understand.
Also lina is actually a fairly good pick against am early on, her burst doesn't give a fuck about spell shield
^ I'm not talking just about competitive. You have DB+, take a look at more stats and you will see what I mean.
its pretty weird to see ppl calling weak a hero which has one of the highest pickrates for respective role in competitive dota; usually i see everyone doing vice versa (high pick rate = nerf plz imba)
well, even in pubs it all depends on whether lina is mid or not, and if shes mid, then depends on laning phase, if she wins mid (quite likely coz good range good harass all around good laner), and starts roaming early you're fucked.
conversely if you get to freefarm you will beat her
@TripleSteal-
Am isn't the meta, he is kind of counter of the meta. If heroes of the meta would be different, he wouldn't do well.
So we cann't call him strong, countrary to let say leshrac.
On the other hand, we have strong heroes that didn't do well in competitive (winter wyvern) but not doing well do not mean weak, it's just that this support really suck in this meta (and it's really frightening that this support, is such a bad environnement for him, still managed to not be that bad)
Doing well in meta =/= good.
Ofc usually heroes in meta are good, cause good make more win than bad (on average). but the hero need to be fitting the style of the other, or it's not gonna work.
@matrice
true that, but dota is kinda based on the interaction of different heroes. if something is strong only against given heroes, but these heroes are picked over and over again - we can skip all the background and just say am is currently strong.
but i got ur point and agree with that. once leshrac and storm disappear, am's pickrate gonna fall unless he receives some buff. he doesnt need one now though.
and we could see it all along the dota history- minor changes for one hero resulted in great changes in win- and pickrates of other heroes, not even directly related to the first one. its pretty hard to balance everything ideally and meta shifts each time a new update is released.
if the hero is doing well in meta it means he is good. what else can you base that on, your personal preferences?
there cant be a bad hero, who just so happen to be good certain patch, because if he works well it means he is good.
^strong for all the brackets and strong for 5k+ pubs or competitive are two very different things
*Pubstompers have high winrates.
Storm is sub 50 as well.
And AM used to be 40% winrate a patch or 2 ago.
true that, same as SB
imba blue pony xD
however stuff like omniknight or necrophos is not as good as overall winrate states, f.e.
Carries are kinda hard to be universally strong at all brackets, coz theres farming creeps type and farming heroes type, and also different carries need different amounts of game sense, even though skillset wise ts not complex.
spectre's skillset doesnt seem too hard to learn , but still the hero is not as good in lower tiers coz it just needs better game sense to play it
source : I'm a very average spectre
Omni and abba have high winrates, mostly coz they are hard to kill/ make teammates hard to kill, and thats what wins most games at normal skill, more so than at higher skills.
Omni has the highest winrate in ranked very high skill as well http://dotamax.com/hero/rate/?skill=vh&ladder=y
ban leshrac, don't pick storm, pick 1 more stunner than usual, suddently, while staying in the meta, am isn't doing well against that.
So no, it's not strong.
Don't even forget that a trash hero (luna) actually won pretty easily against am pick. and luna is years from being specially good against am.
That's just the flow of the game (same meta ^^) with luna being particulary good against am.
Once again, being a counter to some top of the meta doesn't make it a good hero
"more so than at higher skills" its still a really good hero and i'm not surprised it has high winrates at higher skill levels.
you can do that flawed logic for any hero. ban this, dont pick that, and suddenly x hero bad.
you know full well dota is a game of counterpicks. being able to counter certain picks goes towards strength of a hero, you cant hold that against him.
and for the record, i dont think am, nor luna are shit, let alone trash tier.
you had plenty of heroes being unchanged, and as meta changes "suddenly" they become good. without any changes. so yes, meta pretty much dictates if a hero is a bad or good. otherwise what you base a strength of a hero on? pubs? your likingless. what?
@vaikiss, different folks different strokes.
its actually funny how certain people enjoy niche picks. like im watching ink (meepo player) play tree (which is super hated), and i for example enjoy playing both.
i guess theres something in the playstyles rather than heroes.
Nothing really. His name is Anti-mage and so far his doing what his supposed to do (flash farm, rek int heroes), do not always expect him to man fight other carries such as pa, sven, bs
just look at my past 4 games rofl, i was justing picking him as my friend gifted me the immortal then after 3 games i then randomed him lol, i think hes super strong if you can play him like wave cutting is so pick, makes up for the pressure you submit to having an am early game and you can then force someone back, tp your self and fight 4 v5
also all games bar first i was shut down in lane but you can usually recover, and the space it provides the team they usually just wreck the map whilst they try prsssure you
One buff AM needs is more immortals :D
Also he's not as viable as Gyro because he's a carry with 2 passives. Those carries tend to be the weak ones these days (PA, Void, Sniper). So he just has less to work with when one thing goes wrong. If he's silenced, his passives are pretty trash. If Gyro pushes the Flak Cannon key before he's silenced, he's at least hitting everyone nonetheless.
He'll probably not get any changes. It's just like last patch when spirit breaker got pretty strong since there was a sniper every game.
How is AM bad against lesh btw? He's a very slow-casting so you can often blink from his stun and is mostly magic damage except his tower-destroying skill no one gets anymore until level 10 (or even stats at times). Storm depends on item timings so I get that.
^, well said, enemy never pressure me enough and AM Is usually free mmr.
Also, idk how to buff him. You cant buff his late game thus becoming almost OP, amazing farming speed + amazing late game? Not balanced.
So either improve his laning or his farming speed more idk how. Or just buff one of his passives a little bit.
As much as I would love to see Mana Break not being a UAM I know ite not gonna happen, would make hero way too strong
am is soooooooooooo boring as shit. 40 minutes you only farm, after that you kill shit but barely any skill cap
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He gets picked quite often due to high pickrate of leshrac storm and such but his winrate is still pretty small.
Problem is, he has only one viable build and can't really do a lot even after he has the battlefury and sometimes even with manta if it isn't acquired in a timely fashion. Also, in order to actually jungle a bit you need treads + ring of health and PMS + quelling blade (even then you kind of run out of regen)
I truly believe he still needs a buff to be a bit more viable like other carries (void/pa) who can do much more with less.
If you were to change something about the hero, what would that be?